Sept. 8, 2022

93: Tactical Longevity with Dr. Jennifer Prohaska

93: Tactical Longevity with Dr. Jennifer Prohaska
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Resiliency & Wellness Special Guest

Scott and Shaun talk with Clinical Psychologist and University of Kansas Jayhawk, Dr. Jennifer Prohaska (Ph.D) about a police officer resiliency program that she developed to better treat the high number of police officers that experience mental health related issues throughout their careers. 

The program, known as Tactical Longevity,  is unique in that it helps to address the omnipresent mental health related issues facing law enforcement through the incorporation and training of important stakeholders in every police department. 

It’s an ingenious concept that relies heavily on a program very familiar to most police officers, the field training process. The program is reflective of Dr. Prohaska’s realism, humor and passion to help police officers and ultimately the communities that they serve. 

Transcript
[shaun]:

hey folks welcome back to another episode of three cups talk this is shawn joining you from south carolina

[scott]:

eh oh

[shaun]:

today i've got the thrifty norwegian

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

with again

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

from beautiful illinois and no obligatory he's off he's on a diet of not saying negativ things about illinois anymore he's told

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

me he's

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

no longer

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

doing his cold

[scott]:

it's

[shaun]:

turkey cold turkey

[scott]:

i gave

[shaun]:

is going

[scott]:

it up

[shaun]:

off

[scott]:

for lent

[shaun]:

it right it's there's a patch that you get for it now it's just like it's like my father always said you know if you're gonna quit smoke

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

and you just stop he like smoked a pack

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

of day and he just stopped

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

cold turkey and that's what you

[scott]:

no

[shaun]:

got to

[scott]:

patches

[shaun]:

do with

[scott]:

no gum

[shaun]:

you know there's no

[scott]:

no

[shaun]:

gums

[scott]:

nothing

[shaun]:

for there's no gums for illinois like

[scott]:

no

[shaun]:

missing it hating it doing whatever it's just

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

let it go you gotta stop

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

cold turkey the best

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

way to beat an addiction which is which is what i define that

[scott]:

it's what

[shaun]:

uh

[scott]:

that's what it equates to

[shaun]:

yeah and rich uncle chris he's out of the box he's he's got something always he's taking his kids to school he's taking one of his

[scott]:

hm

[shaun]:

daughters to school that's what it was

[scott]:

just

[shaun]:

he's

[scott]:

went

[shaun]:

always

[scott]:

through that

[shaun]:

so busy but he's doing it oddly up with a hydrofoil which is kind of

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

like really i don't know how he swings this stuff but he's actually traveling

[scott]:

he's got that thing that that space ship from the jet sons that just

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

hums along

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

like i'm getting i'm getting a i'm getting way back in cartoons there

[shaun]:

do you

[scott]:

but

[shaun]:

realize

[scott]:

yeah the

[shaun]:

that

[scott]:

jetson

[shaun]:

george jason was actually born this year per

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

the cartoon funny that you said that

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

i read this the other day just a thing to

[scott]:

how

[shaun]:

know like

[scott]:

do you know that like how do you know that

[shaun]:

i pay attention to things for a little while

[scott]:

but like

[shaun]:

for fifteen

[scott]:

is that like

[shaun]:

seconds

[scott]:

some kind

[shaun]:

at a

[scott]:

of

[shaun]:

time

[scott]:

is that like is that like a desk calendar that you have that

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

that was something that was on there

[shaun]:

no

[scott]:

to day like

[shaun]:

it

[scott]:

you

[shaun]:

just

[scott]:

tore

[shaun]:

popped

[scott]:

off

[shaun]:

on my

[scott]:

that

[shaun]:

twitter

[scott]:

day and

[shaun]:

feet

[scott]:

they're like

[shaun]:

it was

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

it was it was in my twitter feet about

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

something about the cardashians and then that and i was like i was n i was out had to keep moving it was like all right i got to get back on to some

[scott]:

i don't

[shaun]:

more

[scott]:

get

[shaun]:

serious

[scott]:

that stuff

[shaun]:

stuff

[scott]:

on my space yeah

[shaun]:

yeah you know

[scott]:

there's

[shaun]:

but

[scott]:

not much feeding throg there anymore

[shaun]:

you were still like when we're in the army

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

like when i was in the army and you know when i was training

[scott]:

yah

[shaun]:

people in the place where i was always talking about how do you

[scott]:

h

[shaun]:

stay agile and mobile on the battle field and i was perfect for like from a resiliency

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

standpoint of being like

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

well if i'm up he sees me i'm down and that's about how long i can stay focused on a topic so you know that's where it's at and you know like how we dealt with resiliency through

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

our career and the military when i was in tell

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

you was largely done through no legal means of like alcohol

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

and things like that like i was stationed in germany and you know i don't drink much in germany it's really

[scott]:

really

[shaun]:

wild i don't

[scott]:

that's

[shaun]:

there's

[scott]:

weird

[shaun]:

not much going on that related to alcohol i don't think even beer

[scott]:

and driving

[shaun]:

in germany

[scott]:

super fast

[shaun]:

right right which is you know you

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

don't

[scott]:

mean

[shaun]:

mix the two because he'll tell you the police will you don't

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

mess with those dudes you just don't

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

but the bottom

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

line was just like you know we always measured our resiliency in the facts like hey we would get completely blottowed in a single night in my resiliency was my ability

[scott]:

a

[shaun]:

to do it again the next night when

[scott]:

hm

[shaun]:

i was in my twenty like that's how i dealt with like look silin dude look i'm back i'm here i'm ready to drink

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

again and not deal with

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

my issues and you know some of the crazy things and then they take you out of germany and drop you in the middle east this is how the army just completely messed with you

[scott]:

hm

[shaun]:

and then there's no boots allowed at all there's no booze anywhere like you were

[scott]:

really

[shaun]:

getting ripped off a near beer like an n we had what these things called dining out

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

and they would allow us only to bring in an n a was like like the he

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

uh

[shaun]:

was like i don't think they don't tink he's alcohol in it is there

[scott]:

no it's

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

no it's like it's like zero point point zero one

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

per cent or less or something like that

[shaun]:

so so

[scott]:

you'd

[shaun]:

there

[scott]:

have to

[shaun]:

is

[scott]:

drink fifty of them

[shaun]:

some

[scott]:

to

[shaun]:

of them en thar okay so that's what i did just what i did

[scott]:

it was

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

either it was either that or you had to make toilet wine like in prison

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

so

[shaun]:

exactly right

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

it

[scott]:

mean

[shaun]:

was

[scott]:

it's like what

[shaun]:

but you

[scott]:

it's a struggle it's

[shaun]:

those

[scott]:

a struggle

[shaun]:

camel spiders really challenge that toilet though

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

it was you know and when you're trying to get up there and recite

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

ah

[shaun]:

the fiddler's green as the junior lieutenant in the regiment and you drinking like uh

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

you know eh burn pitt ripple you know you're not you're not really

[scott]:

burn

[shaun]:

on it but

[scott]:

it

[shaun]:

anyway

[scott]:

ripple

[shaun]:

i'm sure at western

[scott]:

that's

[shaun]:

illinois

[scott]:

one of

[shaun]:

you

[scott]:

our

[shaun]:

guys

[scott]:

sponsors actually i think

[shaun]:

burn

[scott]:

is

[shaun]:

pit ripple

[scott]:

burnt

[shaun]:

right there

[scott]:

burnt

[shaun]:

you go

[scott]:

ripple

[shaun]:

it's

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

it's it's a brown liquor when

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

i understand

[scott]:

it's

[shaun]:

uh

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

it's an

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

after dinner drink

[shaun]:

and

[scott]:

it's

[shaun]:

they

[scott]:

a

[shaun]:

actually ask you you can get va benefits through it completely you know i mean like you burn pit burn pit

[scott]:

her

[shaun]:

ripple is like ou know

[scott]:

rifle

[shaun]:

it's like well

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

i'm eligible for

[scott]:

you

[shaun]:

a

[scott]:

can you can also clean wounds with it

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

and

[shaun]:

exactly that's not a coagulant though so it's really really rough um but i'm sure at western illinois where you went to school scott i'm sure

[scott]:

h

[shaun]:

they all coped with things quite well resiliency

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

is

[scott]:

well

[shaun]:

you know

[scott]:

you

[shaun]:

what

[scott]:

know

[shaun]:

i mean

[scott]:

i mean you know i was so busy academically usually that i didn't rally have

[shaun]:

hm

[scott]:

time for that kind

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

of stuff but

[shaun]:

right right

[scott]:

you know

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

i was able to find my resiliency in reading

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

in the library

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

and books and many

[shaun]:

hm

[scott]:

leather bound books

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

no yeah it was the same kind of thing like the army i mean you know you

[shaun]:

m ah

[scott]:

did you do like when you had a huge test

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

or something like that or something you've been studying for

[shaun]:

m yeah

[scott]:

all week or you felt bad

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

about some test that you didn't do on it's like let's go out and just

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

tear it up the entire weekend and then not

[shaun]:

ye

[scott]:

not really address any of that stuff and then just you know do it over again

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

so for mike for my college kids that are listening don't listen to that but

[shaun]:

yeah just

[scott]:

that

[shaun]:

like

[scott]:

that might have happened that might have happened

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

one or twice

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

one or two times

[shaun]:

i try to explain to my sons like we're like

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

pioneers and we would do it but we would do it differently this time and

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

we did it so you could live a better life and you social

[scott]:

we made these

[shaun]:

medium

[scott]:

sacrifices for you

[shaun]:

tik tok is a more dignified means of being put

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

run

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

into the ground by the world but you know resiliency

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

is a huge thing in law enforcement right now

[scott]:

it

[shaun]:

it's

[scott]:

is

[shaun]:

definitely

[scott]:

it

[shaun]:

the

[scott]:

is

[shaun]:

military

[scott]:

it

[shaun]:

as been

[scott]:

is

[shaun]:

way out that as usually they re they have a much better budget

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

when you talk about a much more consolidated vision from the d d

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

through d c and the pentagon

[scott]:

m oh

[shaun]:

the police world it's been a little bit different you rely in a lot of different places

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

and a lot of different people to do that i think it's great because you're getting a lot of different ideas from a lot of different people from around the country

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

and that's where our guest is at today and she's definitely doing

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

some stuff when i read about it was like oh we got to reach out to her one we've never had anybody on the show from kansas which is kind of cool

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

um so she's our first

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

and then what she's doing with it is not just about the individual it's about people that can imp act the individual and it's a it's a community thing that we need to be much better about and much more healthy about it

[scott]:

no

[shaun]:

but to talk a little bit about our background she graduated with her doctorate a ph d and clinical psychology

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

twenty thirteen from the university of kansas scooters got his

[scott]:

rock

[shaun]:

son

[scott]:

chalk

[shaun]:

there

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

right there you go and didn't they do really well in basketball this year they did

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

really well

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

in

[scott]:

kind

[shaun]:

basket

[scott]:

of good yeah

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

kind

[shaun]:

kind

[scott]:

of good

[shaun]:

i

[scott]:

yea

[shaun]:

think they did

[scott]:

kind

[shaun]:

it all

[scott]:

of good

[shaun]:

right and she completed her residency at the university of kansas medical center specializing in neuro rehabilitation psychology which she's going to explain

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

to us nickle drag later on where she also concentrated on traumatic brain injury t b i which we call that spinal cord injuries and other traumatic injuries that had life altering permanent consequences she is one of

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

a few rare psycho just with advanced knowledge

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

of the use of force encounters

[scott]:

yeah oh

[shaun]:

and is also for force science

[scott]:

more

[shaun]:

certified which is huge in our world she is

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

nationally sort of public speaker

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

for numerous law enforcement

[scott]:

we

[shaun]:

and public safety agencies presenting on such topics as post dramatic stress disorder suicide

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

chronic

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

and cumulative stress resiliency and various commander

[scott]:

mary

[shaun]:

leadership courses focusing on how mental health

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

impacts leadership she has been a feature speaker for the pin national academy associates kansas western missouri

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

chapter the international association

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

of chiefs of poe

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

smith

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

american regional council and central states law enforcement executive seminars as an advocate for advancing individuals and departments for no matter the limitations

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

her approach is guided by a typically back methods to get the best results for her clients

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

pat agencies or individuals since twenty thirteen she has grown her practice to sport

[scott]:

a

[shaun]:

over fifty four different entities which is huge across three stage focusing on

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

the evaluation of treatment of first responders as a trusted resource

[scott]:

okay

[shaun]:

she provides

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

clear and precise programs to develop top performers who are ready for high risk high stake

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

situations and that would be none

[scott]:

no

[shaun]:

other than dr jennifer prohesca call jenny from here on out

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i like

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it

[scott]:

welcome welcome

[shaun]:

let me

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

thank you

[shaun]:

the jenny jenny who can i turn to out of the way right now six

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

seven

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

boy

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

five three

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

o nine can i do that

[scott]:

right jenny jenny right

[shaun]:

is ill

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

i'm sure you've never heard that before

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah no never

[shaun]:

my next move is

[scott]:

never

[shaun]:

to drop my next move is to drop g into your drink

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh my i

[shaun]:

and

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

was

[shaun]:

then

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like

[shaun]:

it was

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

actually gonna like i thought that the fourth gump was coming right away but

[shaun]:

there

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you skipped it hm

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

there you

[scott]:

thank

[shaun]:

go

[scott]:

you jenny

[shaun]:

you do

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right

[shaun]:

it's a generational

[scott]:

okay

[shaun]:

thing

[scott]:

all right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[scott]:

let's get

[shaun]:

i

[scott]:

that

[shaun]:

showed

[scott]:

out

[shaun]:

my

[scott]:

of the way

[shaun]:

age

[scott]:

to

[shaun]:

as usual other than

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

the beard i

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

showed my age but thanks for being here with

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

us we really appre shape your putting up

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

with

[scott]:

that's

[shaun]:

us

[scott]:

great

[shaun]:

and talking about

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

a topic one we can't talk about enough about and your

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

program is what we're going to deep dive today to see the differences and back up some of

[scott]:

yeh

[shaun]:

that scientif methodology that you use so please dig a little deeper into you your background and we'll go from there

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sure so born in race in kansas did actually all my

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i called my sentence to

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

my whole

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sentence

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

all my graduate school

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

my undergrad all my residency

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

at the university of kansas so rock track

[scott]:

nice

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i did

[shaun]:

my

[scott]:

nice

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i went to like zero football games basketball

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

games so i didn't have

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a lot of fun i lived

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a lot in

[scott]:

my

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the library but it's paying off

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

now so

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

there you go

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

anyway

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so yeah i did that i actually kind of have a backgroud mostly

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and like brain and spinal cord injuries spent a lot

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

of time during nenurosyce stuff so

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

when you said hey maybe

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

she'll explain

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

what nerorehabsyce

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

is

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it's basically like after you have a major brain injury

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

spinal and how do you get back to wherever we can get you as fast

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

as possible

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i also

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

worked earn

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

unit and i

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

worked trauma unit and

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i see you and i freaking loved

[scott]:

wow

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it loved it

[shaun]:

h

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i didn't

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

think i as much as i did but really enjoy it and then

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i took my first job at k med working at the cancer

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

center where i worked

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

with mostly like terminally ill folks

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

usually brain cancer or some other kinds of cancer too

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i had

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like some serious

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

burn out at that point i didn't i didn't probably make it more than about

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

nine months there before i was like i need

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to something else i missed

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

drama

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i missed working in drama so

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

really well

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

so it wasn't compassion fatigue as much as you'd much rather be we

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

have a saying like i want to get back in the ship

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

like i dont want to get

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yes

[shaun]:

back in because that's where i feel

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

most comfortable at that big term in the military

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

swat guy say i like i got nothing going on i want to get out there and it kind of translates to what you seem to by the sounds of it

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

totally totally

[scott]:

a

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so i actually left

[scott]:

what

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i don't really recommend this like when other grad

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

students asked me like he what do you do with your career

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

or what's your recommendation it's not my path i promise you that but

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i honestly just life i was so freaking

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

burn out and i was like there was some super sad moments at the cancer

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

center and so

[scott]:

m oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i

[scott]:

jees

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

left

[scott]:

i bet

[shaun]:

yeah imagine

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah i left without a job so don't recommend

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that

[scott]:

yeah yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

but

[shaun]:

just try

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

that for two months it's kind of fun

[scott]:

yeah but at least you at least you realize that you know that it was getting that way and

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[scott]:

you

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

know decided hey maybe i need to do something else

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it was time to go and so i just happened to fall into a practice that

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

was like forensic a little bit of law enforcement

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and i fit

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i don't know i fit the nitch and

[scott]:

yeah oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i was kind

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

of the black sheep grad school because i'm not really typical kind of therapist

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and then uh yeah and then i got i landed in a niche that was perfect

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so through all that kind of crappy situation i ended up working with cops

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and i actually love it so i wouldn't

[shaun]:

really

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

do anything i

[shaun]:

real

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

can't work

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it normal people i'll tell you what

[shaun]:

there

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

can't

[shaun]:

you go

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

specially just rolling with us

[scott]:

that

[shaun]:

i guess

[scott]:

right that pretty much sums it up yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

i can't either so yeah that's what i do

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

now what did you like anything in your personal life that would set you apart from anybody else that would

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

help you with some of

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

those because

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

obviously

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

i like that you're the first and you're probably a pioneer in is but we're going to clearly need more people like

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

you to be able to handle this

[scott]:

may

[shaun]:

that don't

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

necessarily come from our world directly you know what i mean

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah so i think

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

one of the things that kind of set me up is i mean i'm a kansas girl that grew

[scott]:

yah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

up with two business owner parents and so

[scott]:

h

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i was from the time i was a little i was starting businesses so

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i know

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sounds weird a

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

tie into mental

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

health but i think

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like one of the things that doesn't that isn't working

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right in this field

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

there's a lot of psychologists like i address don't have the ability to kind of know the audience and sell to the audience and make

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sure that

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the audience understands like this is how this is going to benefit you and so i came from two entrepreneurial parents and then i started

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

my first little business charging a quarter

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a participant i thought dance class at the gazebo in

[shaun]:

there

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

my

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

neighborhood

[shaun]:

you go right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

nice

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

then i ran some other businesses too and then my my weird one is i actually was i owned an area acrobatic

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

studio and so i taught area acrobatics for a while

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

what

[scott]:

was hoping we get

[shaun]:

you

[scott]:

to that

[shaun]:

still

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh yeah

[shaun]:

own it you still own it

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

no i sold it i sold it because like this whole

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

cop

[shaun]:

we

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

doc thing kind of took off so

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

she starts out as lucy vampell from the peanuts like you know psychology the nickel goes in the can and she shakes a used to pull

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

the football out from all the boys feet when they were gonna go

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

kick it

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

and now now she

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

like

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

flying through the air like

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

a trapeze artist like not just a regular trapeze artist like if i understand

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

it's those people that wrap themselves up and then roll and fall and

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

it's like you must have

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

tremendous

[scott]:

like circus

[shaun]:

course strength

[scott]:

ole or some

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah so we

[shaun]:

it

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

actually

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

would

[shaun]:

circular

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

get

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we would get kids guys and girls ready to go either audition for sir

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

or go on crew ships actually so

[scott]:

really

[shaun]:

really

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we would teach and it was

[shaun]:

really

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

actually awesome because i would have this really heavy day at work

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you know we're talking about like horrible things and then it's really fun to just

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

see a kid up on a trapeze and enjoy life you

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

know so

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

keep in balance

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

so they

[scott]:

hand

[shaun]:

go on cruise ships that prepare them for getting keel hauled like so they get like drug underneath the ship and that what that was

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

no

[shaun]:

is that

[scott]:

it's

[shaun]:

no

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hear

[scott]:

fun

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

god

[shaun]:

no no no okay

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it was

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

more like look at all the feathers and glitter and all the fun

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

stuff as

[shaun]:

okay okay see i just

[scott]:

yeah it's yeah that's like when shan was that's different when shown when you were on the working on the crews ships back

[shaun]:

oh yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

you

[shaun]:

totally totally different totally

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

different was what it was

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

i was a cabin boy that's what i was

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

okay

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

yeah so i got my wooden leg but yeah but again uniqueness abounds here

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

and that's

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that's

[shaun]:

cool because when you think about what you're doing and the unique

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

aspect of what it is like

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

there's two places you can go to treat people

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

when you were talking originally

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

about you know the burns

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

and

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

then the people with the tbisofthetrmatic traumatic brain injuries that's all people it suffered in rack and

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

afghanistan from roadside bombs you know things that didn't necessarily kill you but those guys probably came to you wishing that at times they were dead because of everything that had to be done and like to face that every single day those truly people

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

are like literally you see their

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

wings unfold you know and i mean they're literally like angels to people and the things that they do to get people

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

straight you're not dealing just with you know the t b i itself now it's the pay full process of

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

surviving being burned and having

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

that happened to your brain like that work probably

[scott]:

physical and mental stuff you're dealing with

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right

[shaun]:

takes

[scott]:

you

[shaun]:

a

[scott]:

know

[shaun]:

tol on you on a level as a care

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

provider that's

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

probably immeasurable probably similar to what you would see if you were

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

cop over twenty plus years

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah i'll be honest with you you know it sucked me up more as

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

working with answer patients

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

honestly

[shaun]:

really really

[scott]:

really

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

an

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so honestly

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

here's my thing like

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i've got a personality

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that is more of a kind of a charge

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

for set a goal let's work

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

on achieving it let's move forward and i

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

often

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

found that i could use that to my advantage

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

when i was working burn unit is you

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

know t b i because

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a lot of the patients were just wanting to

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

get better and get out of there right

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

cancer s a different story

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it's a

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

lot of the times i was working with people i was helping

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

them come to their close their end and my mind just didn't work that well

[scott]:

h

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that way

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i got

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

burned

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

out because it wasn't in line what was a kind of how i function

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

it was great to recognize that though because like some people ud be like i'm not going to

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

quit because this is a task and i won't give up on it experience

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

mhm

[shaun]:

one of that of my own it wasn't really working for me

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

and i just kept doing it and doing it and do it because it's like i'm not going to quit but

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

starts to become miserable for

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

you and then you set yourself free of it you're like i'm free to go do what i was meant to do not

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

what i thought i had to do because i'm not a quitter you know what

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

i mean so it's great that

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

you could recognize that

[scott]:

okay

[shaun]:

especially in stuff that

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

so heavy like to walk away

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

from that is

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

almost probably like walking away from

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

the job for a cop

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

like i'm given up on it and you know when my wife gave up i saw like a part of her went away she was a chicago

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

cop for six years and part of her went away even though we were replacing with children in a new life

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

a different life and where stable life you could still tell

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

like nothing intrigued her as much as being a cop she's

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yep

[shaun]:

gone on to the other things but it's

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

probably not the same passion so

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

can definitely

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

relate to that

[scott]:

so how long have you been doing this new the new gig now the new job where you get where you're more working with law enforcement oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so i actually really i got my

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

degree in twenty thirteen finished out twenty thirteen

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

working in kind of a more medical setting

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

at k and then decided

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you know what i just really can do this probably one more minute longer

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it wasn't

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

anybody's fault it's just like one of those like know

[scott]:

i

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

thyself things you know it's just

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it wasn't going to last for me

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

at all and so late

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

twenty thirteen year i

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

left and enjoined that private practice and then in twenty sixteen i started my own

[scott]:

my

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so yeah

[shaun]:

great

[scott]:

nice

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

and grat on good for us as a profession now you have taken it into a realm of which you know everybody like resiliencys like don't know it's like talking about do you like to drink water yeah of course i like drink water if i don't

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

do what i'm gonna die you know what i mean

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

kind of a thing but resiliency it's very amebic and you don't really know what it means to some people are ike yeah we're gonna have a company

[scott]:

we

[shaun]:

picnic and that's going to show our resilien but

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

like i was always

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

like a little takes a little more than that

[scott]:

ah oh

[shaun]:

particularly in our world and i always thought i was like it was too individualized like we made it too much of an individual's effort i get at the end of the day you as an individual have

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

to over these things but the support network is huge in that process and it's

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

like part of being a cop is like

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

i can't show the rest of my co workers

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

male female whoever that

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

i'm weak in any way and who can i turn to if

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

i'm breaking down this process you know field training was one of the things that lie we would automatically like all ight the new guys go ing to the dead body let's see how he reacts and then we'll start

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

scatting on the guy during the call because that's how our gallows humor worked and we were like we we had a good time making the guy laugh

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

and getting

[scott]:

let's

[shaun]:

through

[scott]:

see if

[shaun]:

it

[scott]:

they

[shaun]:

but

[scott]:

poke

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

let's right exactly

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

and then i was never like well ow you feel in the next day nobody ever asked that you were just like he's ready to quit while he's weak you know what i mean an then we sent a guy off into the world thinking week when

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

maybe you just had a normal reaction to that so can you talk to us

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

a little bit about what you're doing within the realm of law enforcement that makes this program unique that you've got

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah yeah so can i

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

go i'm gonna go back a little bit and say kind of how we got here is that cool

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

absolutely

[scott]:

oh yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

um like you guys mentioned

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

in my very long bio that i did not expect you to read the whole thing because it's kind of

[shaun]:

it's

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

boring

[shaun]:

the best

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

but

[shaun]:

as

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you

[shaun]:

the

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

lost

[shaun]:

best

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

viewers

[shaun]:

reading i've

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and

[shaun]:

ever

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

listeners

[shaun]:

done

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

immediately

[shaun]:

i gonna know

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

honestly we're like

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

one sentence into that there key

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

all right moving on

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

no i was good that was good stuff

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

but well i think a big part of so how this started is i got very busy and very competent

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

in my specialty area and i got overwhelmed and like was working

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

about fourteen sixty our day is just doing clinical

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

work which is like a really big no

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

no like a really high risk thing to work that many hours clinically it's kind of like a pilot

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you know they make you take breaks you know yo don't

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

ake mistakes

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

dot hours right right

[scott]:

my

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so it's so i'm sitting in my chair

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

one day in my office and i've like freaking done i don't know four

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

years of it at this point maybe five years of just

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

grinding like that grinding it out every day

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

long and i kept

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

doing the math and i was like how

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

am i going to solve this problem because i'm not going to say no

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to people i have a hard time saying

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

no to people who are really really really needing help because i'm in faking kansas and we

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

don't if this is not meco therapist

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

this isn't california there's very

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

few of us okay

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so especially

[shaun]:

eh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

people that are culturally competent which means

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like they understand the world of cops and i have so many horror stories of people who don't

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

um m we've

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

gone to therapist and it just really did not work out well

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

for whatever

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

reason so i'm sitting

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

in my office chair and it's freaking

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like eight p m and i'm tired and it's like a thursday night and t's eight p m nd i just finish and i start doing the math on just one of my agencies

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

if the stats were right and by

[scott]:

it

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the way one of the stats is that one and five actively

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

working first respondors meads full diagnostic criteria for

[scott]:

a

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

postomatic stress disorder or p t s t

[scott]:

h

[shaun]:

hm

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

um if i did the math on that i was like i'm going to be sitting in this chair

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and if i take that many people i take

[scott]:

no

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

one and five and then i do the math and it

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

looks like maybe ten to twelve sessions to treat somebody

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i am going to be sitting in this

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

chair for two point six years

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

doing nothing but

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

trying to treat just the people in this moment who are meeting criteria and i was like

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i can't do this

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like this is we have a title

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

wave problem coming and it's probably only getting worse

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

as violent crime goes up

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i got to find something else

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so you know there's reaction

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

but there's also prevention

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so i said okay well let's

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

take a look at what might

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

prevent p t s d so i had one of my office

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

assistant

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

go do some research on like what's the actual literature say right now on

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

preventing p t s d and it wasn't the most positive unfortunately

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

there's not a lot of things that have worked

[scott]:

part

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

but one of the things that is shown

[scott]:

ay

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to be kind of correlated with

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

preventing dramatic stress disorder and

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

obviously lower quality of life and all the things that come with it is if you have really high resiliency

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and we'll get into exactly what resiliency means but i

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

was like oh ship

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

okay so what does that mean you got to do some work here on like

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

exactly

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

what does that mean and also by the way like can you even teach resiliency

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

because that

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

is kind

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

of a question out there and turns out

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

can thank god right because

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

otherwise i was like okay

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i'm just i die in this year this is

[shaun]:

and

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

my

[shaun]:

we

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

life

[shaun]:

don't want

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

this

[shaun]:

that

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

is its

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

my own prison here

[scott]:

this

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

exactly

[scott]:

is it

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so i went ahead and i looked into kind of like okay

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

well what does that mean if we if

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we can teach people to be more

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

resilient what's the best way to do that and so i

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

did some research and there's some programs and some really actually

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

really really great wonderful research out there on resiliency but here's the catch those programs are academic lectures and they are all done

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

in the safety of four walls resiliency is different when you

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

could die

[shaun]:

right right

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

yeah that

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

pretty much sums it up

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

there you know it's

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

different so

[scott]:

how

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

they were

[scott]:

do i

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like

[scott]:

do how do i transfer that to this you

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

know

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

let me

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

give you a perspective one of the things are six elements that are like the big six elements that hold up that resiliency

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

kind of pillar one of them

[scott]:

what

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and you guys are going to cringe when i say this word

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

is optimism little

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

do you think cops want

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to be optimistic

[scott]:

that's that

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

sums me up in one

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

word

[shaun]:

right right right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so yeah

[shaun]:

right right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

two negatives actually make more negative in the police world

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so i looked

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

at and i go yeah we're gonna have a problem because if i stand up in

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a room full of salty cops and talk about optinwithhem

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i'm going to get

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

boot out of there like they're going

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to be on

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

their phones they're going

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to be take an emergency

[shaun]:

you're not

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

call

[shaun]:

funny you're not

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

funny

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right

[shaun]:

were on

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

pretty

[shaun]:

yah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

much that's actually kind

[scott]:

m oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

of happened

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sometimes but so i was like you know what this isn't going to work let's

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

take some things that the research

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

already supports and let's adapt

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it so like for example with optimism we move that to

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

accuracy accuracy of thinking i don't need you to be

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

optimistic and pollyanna and

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

think that everything is going to be great but

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

many

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

times we're actually way

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

too far screwed negative

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

how do we

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

get people into the accuracy zone cops love

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

accuracy

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you know

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah and so like those are just like that's

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

just a little taste

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

of what we had to change

[shaun]:

how was it received

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

like once you know

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

like obviously

[scott]:

okay

[shaun]:

very smart to know the cops are on ike yeah whatever

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

ah

[shaun]:

it's like super

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

like at a party people are like why are you so negative as

[scott]:

okay

[shaun]:

oil because that's how goes you know what

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

i mean like and you forget about any of the good things that you saw like we focus on the one group of people that hate us and forget about the eighty five per cent that really

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

my

[shaun]:

still kind of like us and do whatever but how is it received when you first rolled it out i mean was it bumpy was it

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

okay

[shaun]:

better than you thought

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it was amazing honestly it was really cool

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

um i don't teach it by myself

[scott]:

he

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so i think it's really important that it comes also from one of their peers

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

actually pull

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

in a sergeant teaches

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

this class with me and gives great examples

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

because

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

no one wants to hear like

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

my example they want

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to hear crop examples

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so you have to like i

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

think sometimes doctors get kind of out

[shaun]:

ye

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

above

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

above themselves a little bit

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and don't understand like

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it means more

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sometimes to hear stuff

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

from a peer than it does from a professional honestly

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

super well though like

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

super well like i could not

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

believe

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that these i just say kids but you know what i mean these

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

kids were

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

actually

[scott]:

right right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like buying into it and the field training officers were buying into

[shaun]:

my

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it and you know i haven't really mentioned yet but

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the whole thing we're doing that's a little bit

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

different here is we are teaching field training officers how to teach their recruits in the moment how

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

think about things with the elements of resiliency um

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

are trying to teach resiliency exactly like we would teach

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

officers

[scott]:

yeah right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that's a plan

[shaun]:

it's how

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

you get home every night

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and like let's imbed it this is the mind set required

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

for you to not only come physically home every night that's the officer's

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

safety part but

[shaun]:

my

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

mentally

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

safe to come home mentally safe every night

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so this is what you got to do

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

so how

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

do you i was reading a little bit about it

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

if we can get into

[scott]:

it

[shaun]:

the training itself i mean the great thing about it as a power point when i first sought was like oh as a trainer i love power points but point there's this limit where like if you start getting too

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

far in on like

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

it's about

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

forty slides half the class shuts down before no matter how good i mean you could be showing cops like fantasy picks

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

are pouring up there in it before de

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

sides and they're gonna shut down on the

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

they're not

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

ah

[shaun]:

going to pay attention to it

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

if you give them that but when i first looked at i was was very short to the point got right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

to it

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

it was called tactical

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

launce evity you know it's

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

like basically black veil crow say tactical cops they're finding it so it's like definitely a great mind

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

set on it

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

so digging a little on that like how you're using it like it's a definitely it's a mind set thing like officers safety

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[scott]:

okay

[shaun]:

cops can relate to that but how can our greater audience

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

understand that as well

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

okay so like

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

first of all we use the

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

native language like remember when i talked about owning businesses and like having

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

owned business to

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sell business like it's really important that you realize wher they're coming from if i call this the happiness thing you know

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

nobody is going to be real

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

thrilled

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

about that

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you have to think about

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we really want these folks to be able to stay in this career longer

[scott]:

no

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and healthier and so tactical

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

langevity let's be smart and let's be thoughtful about how to keep ourselves mentally safe

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

for the long hall so tactical longevity basically

[shaun]:

hm

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so yeah um you know if you think about this is the difference between military

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

folks with

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the exception of career military but military folks

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and law enforcement is

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

military

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oftentimes you know you do your

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

nine to twelve month deployment sometimes less sometimes more

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and then you come home and get a break

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

through nine to twelve you know again maybe

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sometimes

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

three four or five deployment if you're unlucky

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

but our lucky whatever you want but

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the difference is if you're in law enforcement

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you're going to be pushing twenty five thirty years

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

with chronic daily

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

stress and so that

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

does stuff to your body and your mind that even

[scott]:

i

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

different than what the military folks experience it's just a little different

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you know

[shaun]:

yeah right

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so kind of back to what what you're asking me about

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

how do we do this is

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

this is a large scale cultural change we really are attempting to change the culture of an

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

agency of a department from the ground

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

up which as i actually think where the most meaningful change comes from i think sometimes

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

look

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

for

[scott]:

yes

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

change to come from

[scott]:

yes

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the top down and i think we're gonna be waiting forever

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like

[scott]:

hm

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

no no it

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

has to start from the ground up so when

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we have field training

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

officers that are teaching their recruits how we think about things this is the new cultural

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

norm like this can

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

this can really spread and proliferate at a rate we're

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hoping can change a culture

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

well i like the i like the i like the idea of that you're doing it with the f t s because

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

you know we have a million stories of when we went through field training and you had f tos that be maybe actually did take this kind of approach to some things but then you had some of the f t s you know back old school ones that just basically tried to see how bad they could screw with you and see if you could handle it kind of thing you know

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

and i was and i was i was a f to for a short period of time so i got to work with some new you know some newer people that you still could like they hadn't gotten that like hood or anything and i guess what i'm saying is like when you're doing it in field training you're getting those people

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

on on when you're getting all those newer people on the front when

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[scott]:

their brand new or newer officers are moodier agency and um if the f t s are doing it consistently

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

across the board then you know everyone's everyone's going through field

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

training and everyone is getting that same

[shaun]:

yeah oh

[scott]:

training that same experience from that and hopefully

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

the same advantage

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

from that so i think it's nice that you've

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

looked to do it with the f t s and just basically be that that's the thing that you roll out right at the beginning and everybody gets and then we move on from there

[shaun]:

and what's good is at it's also universal to our work so you could take an agency in california to con agency in kansas chicago you know i'll go through the geography

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

here i guess but

[scott]:

what

[shaun]:

f ts are gatekeepers they're the gate

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

keepers of the organization you don't fail out in the academy in most places like if you're failing out in the academy you probably hold have ever been there to begin with because it's like it's a mass audience thing they got to get a lot of people through agency send their folks there and they want these folks to get through it buy and large where we saw at least illinois which is

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

the eighth most densely populated state and we came

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

from an area of eight million people where we served in and around you ago f to everybody would say that's where most people failed out they lost

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

it during f they couldn't handle the stress they

[scott]:

yes

[shaun]:

couldn't do with it and some of it was people

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

should ave been doing it but a lot of it we talked about in previous shows was our f tos were definitely guys who were looking like atricians or mission not building people up so to have the f dos as gatekeepers this is just like you at another thing like f ts have to be good shooters they have to be good tacticians

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

they have to be good with case law and

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

develop mentally you know what kind of people they're training now they're really good with this

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

it's another certification that an f to can come to the equation when they're looking to get promoted to say yeah i'm already

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

to this with my people

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

because i've done this under really stressful conditions where the person is literally an arms distance away from me for twelve hours a day you know like that's that's stressful we talked about pilots

[scott]:

helps develop

[shaun]:

earlier

[scott]:

them as leaders too you

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

know

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[scott]:

makes them

[shaun]:

about

[scott]:

better

[shaun]:

pilots

[scott]:

leaders

[shaun]:

earlier

[scott]:

too

[shaun]:

and pilots don't even spend that much time in the air with

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

a co pilot so to speak that they're training

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

it's definitely it's genius when you think about it one of the things that i wanted to ask you about was i really liked in

[scott]:

it

[shaun]:

one of the slides and i was a million questions came to my mind about it like you say you simply can't

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

react our way out of this can you clarify on that tell us what that means like i don't even know what you need by react

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

our way out of that

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so that kind of goes back to

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the whole title wave of mental health issues

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that we're seeing

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and it cops are not immune to those at all

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so we simply cannot react

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

our way out of just solve this dumpster

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

fire of a situation

[scott]:

yes

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and then let's go to the

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

next one like

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we can't be thinking like that because quite

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

frankly i don't know if you noticed lately but no one's really

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

signing

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

up to be a cop

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

anyway

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so

[shaun]:

we've talked about

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

that a lot right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so it's like we might want

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to retain them i don't know we call it crazy but

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you know

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we might want to think about this

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so that part

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

of it is we can't react our way out of it meaning the trauma stuff like we can't just keep running dempster fired star fire we have to be able to develop skills ahead of time so that we don't have them sick in the first place right

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so that's that part of it and then the other thing is look we have

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a problem with recruitment and if we want good quality officers and we want them to

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

be the people that back us on

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

calls we are now in a spot where

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we have to train them

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that way we can't just

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

be trying to wash them out all the time

[shaun]:

that's

[scott]:

hm

[shaun]:

great

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

that is a great explanation and now i can rest easy tonight

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

knowing that i'm bout to go through field training again and maybe the guy is listening to this and well anyway what

[scott]:

so

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

love

[scott]:

you're

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it

[scott]:

actually running this program where in the example that we were looking

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

at when we gotten some information was kansas city missouri right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yep

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

kens city police department they

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

actually were the first ones who kind of said yeah let's try this

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

innovative approach so

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that's a big deal so

[scott]:

so

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

how did that how did that how did that start out

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so it literally started out with me saying hey i want to try this program

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to the chief of police at the time

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

retired chief smith and he gave me the floor and said we have

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a field turning officer school coming up

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

um

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it's in

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

february and i was like okay we don't have a program it's like january

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and i'm like okay

[shaun]:

you right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

well

[shaun]:

there

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that's

[shaun]:

you

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

awesome

[scott]:

i can get this together quick

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i worked ell under pressure i got this okay

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so i have been stewing on it and like

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sitting on stuff and saving

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

research and all this kind of stuff for a really

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

long time so when it was go time like i

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

operate well pressure i was like all right let's do it and so

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like with probably less than four weeks put

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a class together a five

[scott]:

wow

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hour class that we taught in in field turning officer school

[shaun]:

so you

[scott]:

that's

[shaun]:

said is

[scott]:

awesome

[shaun]:

a five hour class

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

r class

[shaun]:

could you see it developing into more

[scott]:

yea

[shaun]:

longer time like a certification type thing like a forty hour

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

course

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so what i'm thinking and

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

here's the deal the other constraints we're working with is many many many agencies are so

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

understaffed that they don't they can't send people out for extended training you know

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it's

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like okay we can get this person away for a day but we need them

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

back

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right and

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so we don't bullshit

[scott]:

no

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

around we go really fast

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and we teach a lot of content

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and then what we also do is then

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

while

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that fell training officers out

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

there with our first recruit

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we drew up video content to them to

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

remind them of the skills

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we try to keep it pretty active so yeah

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we can do the

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

training in five hours will probably extend

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it out actually

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

coming up with more examples and as staffing numbers

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

get up you have to operate in the constraints of the system and

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right now it's go fast

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[shaun]:

yeah right right and how long have you been doing that that's was after twenty sixteen obviously

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

when you started your own business like what time frame have you been doing that

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

actual tactical longevity program

[shaun]:

yes

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

man

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[scott]:

ye

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah not even a year this

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

is february

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

twenty

[shaun]:

great

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

twenty two yeah

[shaun]:

awesome

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah and it's already taken off so

[shaun]:

how

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

where

[shaun]:

many

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we've

[shaun]:

people

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

been

[shaun]:

have

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

real

[shaun]:

been

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

lucky

[shaun]:

through

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

it do do you keep those numbers i'm sure you do

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so we have had about

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

forty f to go through it and so

[shaun]:

so

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

then

[shaun]:

i

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

if you it's kind of exponential growth so after

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that then every recruit coming

[scott]:

ye

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

through is going to have exposure

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so forty f tos and then week

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we started

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

another agency and we're doing probably another twenty

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

six to thirty f dos and

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

wow

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

then the plan is to

[scott]:

ye

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

roll it out

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to feline

[scott]:

ye

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

supervisors too

[shaun]:

there you go right

[scott]:

nice

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

build it

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

ah

[shaun]:

from the ground up like

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yep

[shaun]:

if the people like it the super riders

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

can back at it all they want but if the people like it it's going a happen you know and

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

i mean and people are going to buy into it i mean that's like you said the grass roots aspect of it is huge and it's kind of what we try to do in the show is we talk to people that are doing it at the ground level like a lot of places with hey let's interview a chief about this it's like chiefs have a lot of things on their mind a lot of things on their plates thy also have a reputation to protect going to be in

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

there trying to do that share somewhat to a certain er like politicians in that sense and they have to do the same kind of things but this is like this is literally

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

coming from people on the ground that do it and like

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

your background

[scott]:

we

[shaun]:

and then taking it to f d as you know the f to

[scott]:

yes

[shaun]:

cadre at or or my last agency before last agency i should say they were a tough group to crack like we had to start separate those guys in training

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

them better to train our officers better and then that program

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

what my partner and my old boss did with that was huge for that department

[scott]:

a

[shaun]:

and this would be something that i think you could take the nash i'm pretty

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

sure i mean it's easy for me to do because i'm not doing it but you know what i'm saying like this is

[scott]:

hey

[shaun]:

huge

[scott]:

no

[shaun]:

i mean

[scott]:

pressure you could

[shaun]:

no

[scott]:

do this

[shaun]:

whatever

[scott]:

right like

[shaun]:

what

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i don't need

[shaun]:

whatever

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sleep that's fine yeah

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

fine

[scott]:

she's back in that chair again just

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

going oh my

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

god

[shaun]:

my

[scott]:

how

[shaun]:

god

[scott]:

am

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

i going

[shaun]:

what

[scott]:

to

[shaun]:

are

[scott]:

do

[shaun]:

we

[scott]:

this

[shaun]:

doing

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i thought

[shaun]:

but i mean

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i was

[shaun]:

like

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

getting out of

[shaun]:

you

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

here

[shaun]:

think you think about like active shooter training alice was kind of the same way it started in virginia with

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

a guy and

[scott]:

yes

[shaun]:

his wife the chemist was an educator and i'm gonna

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

celebrate in all right now but it's taught nationally right now

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

you develop people that are smart at starts in the midwest the center of the country it starts spreading out i mean you can travel well with it and it's proven tangible thing that you know turnover wise it's huge now one question that i have for you while you're talking thing about this is there anything you could do for people

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

or people that are listening in their show that want to be cops to

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

prepare them for this is there like a civilian side of this like how do you develop resiliency prior to even trying to get hired

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

okay so i will tell you like i will say i think

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

generationally um

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we haven't wearing a little crisis of resiliency we have instant gratification which is not in line with resiliency

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i'm

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sure you

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

guys

[shaun]:

exactly

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

have talked that before

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

you'll have to offer your program on tiktok but ah

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

what you're saying

[shaun]:

ent from five

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

my

[shaun]:

hours to fifteen seconds

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

no i've worked on it sometimes i just talked real fast

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

if anybody could do it it be you

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

as

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

for sure

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i got it so you know i think that one of the things to think about is i am actually hopeful

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that these field training officers and regular brand new baby cops come out

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and they start learning these resiliency skills and they actually take them home and they use

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the same resiliency

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

skills at work that they use at

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

home and then their kids learn them their spouses learn

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

them like whatever

[shaun]:

right yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and then that's the way about writing in

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the world that kind of gets us back to building up more resiliency for sure

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so to answer your question on the preventative even before

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

cops come into this job i would say you now there's six elements

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

or resiliency and it's in your best interest to think about things like making sure you have great social connections making sure you know what your values

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

are and you act in line with your values making sure you kind of figure out why do i do a certain behavior which is self awareness right

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

um

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

those are the things i think our society just hasn't

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

really spent

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a lot of time on lately and so

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i'm actually hopeful that

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

this will

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

even filtrate into the family you know a little bit too

[scott]:

okay

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

so one of the one of those parts that you're talking about and when i was reading

[shaun]:

my

[scott]:

the story talks about like the connection aspect and building

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

those relationships with people and obviously that's a big part of what we do in lawn force for our entire twenty you know twenty twenty

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

five thirty years is building relationships with one another with people in the community you know all these other people that we engage throughout our career and i noticed at this

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

is like one that always gets me and i wanted to see

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

i ask you a little more about it but you know you just mentioned you know talking about this newer generation of like instant gratification and short attention span and all that kind of stuff and you said that there's um there's like kind of a generational change in the work for us and nowadays with like social media and like all these different things that people just don't have those same some the same inner

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[scott]:

person i'm not want to like stereotype an entire generation but we all know that we're talking about like the short attention span i can only do this and maybe i'm not comfortable dealing with people face to face cause i only text

[shaun]:

my

[scott]:

this person you know all that kind of all those different examples of that stuff how how did you develop this piece or like

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

what what

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

do you see as a way to deal with that

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so i do think that people have decreasing social skills with regards

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to especially being able to have deeper

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

relationship so

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

they can do superficial relationships

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

they can do the basic skills

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

but the deeper meaning like emotionally connected stuff they really struggle

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

with and

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

there's a huge

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

problem behind that that

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

many people don't know

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

about and that's

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

one of the main factors

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

associated with develop

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

trauma

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

symptoms after a really bad incident is what's the

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

strength of your social

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

connections

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

if

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

if people have excellent

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

social connections pre

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

bad things happening

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to them they are significantly

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

less likely to develop symptoms

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

but we are having

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

these folks come

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

out with not really great connection

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

they have soup official connections

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

people who know a little

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

bit about them

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

whatever they post on instagram and say in their video

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

games or whatever but

[scott]:

right right

[shaun]:

my

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

they don't have that deep connection and without that deep

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

connection it leaves them more vulnerable

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to developing trauma symptoms later so

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we are really on the verge of potential

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

crisis on that oh

[scott]:

really

[shaun]:

wow

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

it's great

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so how

[shaun]:

like

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we teach it you don't know how to teach it like what we actually do

[shaun]:

yes

[scott]:

yeah oh

[shaun]:

please

[scott]:

yeah yeah

[shaun]:

yes

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i could only talk about bad stuff for so long i got to go happy

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

for

[shaun]:

wow

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a second

[scott]:

right yeah what's

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[scott]:

the what's the good news in this

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right

[scott]:

category

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so i know you guys all know this happens a lot but sometimes we

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

can get all

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

upset about stuff

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and we can only basically complain about stuff we don't actually fix it so

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we can get stuck in that mindset and

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i think that when it comes to ommunication and social skills and your newer folks

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we can complain or

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we can do something about it so

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

decided what we're going to do is we actually

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

have these

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

ring of cards that has like

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

these different their conversation cards so they have

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

topics on them stuff like if you were going to be in

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the zombi apocalypse what three people

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

would you pick to be on your team and so the

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

f t is asking the recruit

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

this and the recruit asking

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the f to this

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so let's develop some kind of deeper connection might it feel

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

forced

[scott]:

yah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sure but these recruits super nervous about forming relationships with their field training officer and other officers absolutely

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so let's give them something

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

easy and so

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we give them easy and then we actually

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

start to progress into a little

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

bit harder question like um what's

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the what's the first time you really felt maybe

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

this job wasn't for you

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right

[scott]:

really

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and then

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

how did you

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

get through it

[scott]:

some yeah some

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[scott]:

tough questions there yeah

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah so

[shaun]:

that was a thing that you could never ask if you

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

were

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

no

[shaun]:

doing it you know i mean honestly

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a

[shaun]:

you couldn't

[scott]:

all

[shaun]:

ask

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

you couldn't ask that question because

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

only one answer you

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

were going to get

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

right

[shaun]:

out had to be yes

[scott]:

m oh

[shaun]:

if it was no you were out of the car you were done the f s like you don't want to be part of this year out you know what

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

i mean and and you know it's that's amazing

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and usually

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

what we'll do is we'll

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

have on questions like that will actually have the f to share first so that they're

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hey this is pretty

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

normal actually like there's times when we all think maybe i don't want to do this job you know

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and and then and then yeah and then the recruit sees how the f to gets through it like the modeling of that

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

behavior

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and that cultural shift so yeah

[shaun]:

did you

[scott]:

well

[shaun]:

find

[scott]:

and

[shaun]:

any

[scott]:

when people

[shaun]:

i'm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

sorry i

[scott]:

say

[shaun]:

had scott

[scott]:

when people develop those good

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

relationship you're not always going to be best friends with your f to s the whole rest

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

of your career but

[shaun]:

ah

[scott]:

if those

[shaun]:

i was

[scott]:

people

[shaun]:

i was bad for end with all of them

[scott]:

well i didn't i give

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

start

[scott]:

it every

[shaun]:

the

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

your work

[scott]:

one to

[shaun]:

there

[scott]:

provide

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

on

[shaun]:

there

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

thought you were

[scott]:

i didn't want to provide any examples

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

hey hey myself included okay so like

[shaun]:

station of the month

[scott]:

you know

[shaun]:

club i started that it doesn't really do well that's why i did it because for my f t

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

really rot by the time it gets

[scott]:

but

[shaun]:

there anyway

[scott]:

but even if they're not going to be the people that you're going to be lifelong friends

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[scott]:

with you're still

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[scott]:

whether you like it or not you're forced to spend a significant amount of time with this person in a variety of cat tuations and you're you're as the new officer you're mandated to be with this person whether you like

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

it or not so so why not i see like why not you're trying to say why not try to like break it down a little bit get them a little more like comfortable even if you know i mean even if it's for that short period of time you're just kind of teaching them that how to get more comfortable with people and then i would imagine that continues on in

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

the next phase in the phase and prepares you for being out there and doing it on your own

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it's a skill that's applicable way more places than just that relationship

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

you know it's it's good that

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

we have skilled people doing this

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

because i used to do a drill with this with our interns recruiting people to come into the

[scott]:

ye

[shaun]:

work and trying to diversify the group and this is just i'm

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

uncultured in this whole process and my drill like all right we're on a boat it's the british navy we're all gonna starve to death who do we eat first

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

then e would have to sell their attributes one way or the other and they look at

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

me like

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

you're crazy and i was like well probably that's true but the bottom

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

line is it lets you

[scott]:

that's

[shaun]:

know

[scott]:

not

[shaun]:

like

[scott]:

the question

[shaun]:

you

[scott]:

that's

[shaun]:

know

[scott]:

not what

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

we're talking

[shaun]:

the question

[scott]:

about

[shaun]:

is who were eating first and they're like you know

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

i was always the least desirable out of all the like i was like so i survive my old butt survives and

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

you guys are all gonna

[scott]:

well because

[shaun]:

but they

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

would like

[scott]:

you're

[shaun]:

look

[scott]:

like

[shaun]:

at that

[scott]:

you're

[shaun]:

and

[scott]:

you're

[shaun]:

they

[scott]:

irish

[shaun]:

get a kick

[scott]:

like

[shaun]:

out

[scott]:

corn

[shaun]:

of it

[scott]:

beef

[shaun]:

but i don't know

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

if it is necessarily the most healthy way of maybe celebrating that

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

it is a podclips are we going to survive we're going to eat each other who goes first you know what i mean but

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

they would have a kick out of they all joke with me about it now but

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

it's something that like a skilled professional

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

would take it to her right angle here rather than

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

ah

[shaun]:

maybe cannibalism you know what mean that's

[scott]:

a

[shaun]:

it's a

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you

[shaun]:

bit

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

have to

[shaun]:

much

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

you have to be flexible that's for sure like you

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

ave to

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

be real flexible as a provider in this area for sure

[shaun]:

right right

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

and the thing is is it's like

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

we're talking about things like people like well this i mean do you think that people

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

outside of our world are like well this this makes

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

common sense this is common this is

[scott]:

h

[shaun]:

wherever the two places that are the most it most positive impact in my life or impact n my life and anyway was the military and the police

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

world the business

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

world was a little bit more ahead of

[scott]:

what

[shaun]:

like you know you know fall into my arms kind of crab so you can teach that trust and everything like they

[scott]:

the

[shaun]:

were

[scott]:

trust

[shaun]:

doing

[scott]:

course

[shaun]:

kind of

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

hooky stuff like that

[scott]:

no

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

but it's like do you see that there's anywhere else that this kind of stuff is bein practiced or is it just so

[scott]:

ye

[shaun]:

unique because of what we see

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

it has he practiced this way

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

for us

[scott]:

yah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so i think

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

there's a degree of uniqueness for sure again the other places where they put resiliency

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

programs in place there

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

are school systems hospital systems but everybody's behind

[scott]:

the

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

four and they've passed through layer of security and you know for the most part in most situations their physical safety is pretty much well secured

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

at that point

[scott]:

h

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i've seen

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

other

[shaun]:

ye

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

people do it they do it dif

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

rely and then also i

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

don't think they have to fight

[shaun]:

ye

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the cultural change as much um law enforcement are pretty

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

homogenous culture and it's a tough dude culture you know

[shaun]:

yeah right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

tough

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

guy and gal culture and so i will be honest with you when i was trying to develop

[scott]:

no

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

how

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to present this in a way that makes the most sense

[scott]:

ye

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i actually borrowed on the work of the stoics

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

because that's like that warrior mindset you know and

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

heaven yeah

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so it's there's

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

some stoicism stuff

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

in here

[shaun]:

that's great

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

and the thing that i was going to ask you to as from a little bit earlier we can go back you talked about like the new

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

recruits now has the you know the state of kansas reached out to you at all hey you should come to our academy and start teaching this as a class to our recruit

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

officers has anybody thready been any movement on that out off for you

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah actually

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i just yesterday finished teaching this course it's an abbreviated course because obviously the field turners need to know it pretty well

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it's an abbreviated course on these six

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

elements i just actually

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

just finished one yesterday

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hm

[shaun]:

at

[scott]:

really

[shaun]:

an academy

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and came

[shaun]:

oh that's awesome

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

now

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

how re there a lot of academies in kansas or is it like

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

standardized ones that everybody goes

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

through or

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so there's several there's i think seven in kansas and then many

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

many in missouri probably four or five main ones

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

but

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and then i also teach a little bit in braska so kansas missouri

[shaun]:

m my

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

numbraskca the three that

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we ha the most often but we've really just started this so

[shaun]:

really

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i'm excited to see where it goes

[shaun]:

well we definitely want to try to do whatever we can to get you to illinois and anywhere

[scott]:

oh i

[shaun]:

else you can go it's like easy for me to say it's like um yes

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

but we only we only because we're such a new podcast

[scott]:

well

[shaun]:

we

[scott]:

i'm

[shaun]:

only

[scott]:

out in kansas all the time so maybe i could just like

[shaun]:

spirit

[scott]:

can

[shaun]:

our

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

line

[scott]:

get like

[shaun]:

is oh

[scott]:

kind

[shaun]:

we're

[scott]:

of

[shaun]:

going

[scott]:

drop

[shaun]:

with

[scott]:

it

[shaun]:

we've

[scott]:

spirit

[shaun]:

got to go spirit

[scott]:

lights

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

care

[shaun]:

spirit what's the

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

is that the yellow one is that the bus one

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

whoever i'm offending in the ireland industry i'm sorry i don't

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

talk

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

mean

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

about

[shaun]:

to be

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

life

[scott]:

that's

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

threatening

[scott]:

what

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

right right

[scott]:

i just drive it's an easy eight hours from

[shaun]:

now now

[scott]:

from

[shaun]:

i

[scott]:

the

[shaun]:

have a question just a general question just a question about geography kansas

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

city missouri in kansas city kansas so kansas city missouri missouri reached

[scott]:

a

[shaun]:

out to you

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

for kansas city kansas didn't

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

are those two separate agencies

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

they are sufferin agencies and honestly i just needed a pilot agency and i wanted to go with somebody big so kansas

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

missouri is pretty huge

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

cask is

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

big too and actually yeah have great relationship with them too but i needed to pilot

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it somewhere and get through all the kinks first

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so i wanted

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

major

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

metropolitan

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

city

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

urban cor city with a lot

[scott]:

yeahkcmois

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

of like stress

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and i'll be honest with you

[scott]:

a little rougher right

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

from what i understand

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i think

[scott]:

out

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

they're

[scott]:

there that ye

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

comparable

[scott]:

are they are they

[shaun]:

really

[scott]:

okay

[shaun]:

okay cool

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i mean you can't really

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

tell the difference a lot you know

[shaun]:

really

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

though

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

m hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

they share roads

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and you know all sorts of stuff and getting

[shaun]:

there as

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

stuff

[shaun]:

that great

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

all

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

together

[shaun]:

song about going to kansas city i'm going to kansas city which

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

kansas city was that was a kansas

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

city kansas or kansas city missouri

[scott]:

uh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

no

[scott]:

kansas

[shaun]:

based upon our guest i'm

[scott]:

kids

[shaun]:

thinking it must have been kansas it had to

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

be kansas

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

it had to be

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sounds

[shaun]:

kansas

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

good

[shaun]:

um

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

but yeah i mean this this like

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

we'd like to have you come back

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

and talk with us some of these things like you know what you're seeing what are some of the patterns

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

are you seeing any since it's so new i mean

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

it's probably tough to keep check of data of like you know how do you measure these things other than through

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

the mica like

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

we've seen suicides we've seen

[scott]:

a

[shaun]:

less turnover

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

and do people openly say that i stayed because i felt this was part of it i mean

[scott]:

or

[shaun]:

it's so difficult and

[scott]:

a

[shaun]:

you know it's a mosaic as

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

to why somebody stays or leaves an

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

organization particularly law enforcement now i'm not sure what the loyalty's like in kansas like when you get on a agency do you stay there for twenty years like south carolina you can jump around because it's right to work state now is it the same way in kansas

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

that you're able to measure this like we have seen turn

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

over and turn over has not been because of this it's been because of that i mean is it

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

do

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

ye

[shaun]:

people stay or do they move

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

they

[shaun]:

around

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

do

[shaun]:

a lot

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

they do you know the newer generation in general not just in law enforcement

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

the newer generation in

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

general will skip jobs around a little bit more often

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

but i still see some pretty significant

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

loyalties where

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

people

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

spend years and years here's that one agency

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

um

[shaun]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that's changing

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

a little bit

[shaun]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

i'd say once the competition has kind of

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

when there's

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

not it's an employee market you know

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so we

[shaun]:

absolutely

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

have

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

invest

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

in them but i think

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that a lot of times what i'm seeing people stay for is their peer group

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so they're

[scott]:

it

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

staying

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

for feeling included and

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

feeling connected to

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

something in fact

[shaun]:

m yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sometimes

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

that's the only reason they stay for a while

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

do

[shaun]:

i

[scott]:

do you

[shaun]:

always

[scott]:

think that also that maybe it will be like maybe there'll be ongoing training with it or refresher

[shaun]:

yah

[scott]:

type training as you know

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[scott]:

time goes on i know we do that a lot of we call it in service training where

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

we do legal up it and all that other

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

stuff i would imagine

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

that this would be an element of that too right

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

just making sure that people are up

[shaun]:

m

[scott]:

on this and

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

and and still putting

[shaun]:

oh

[scott]:

this stuff into practice right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we got to say fresh

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so these things that

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

these skills expire these

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

are soft skill so they can expire you know

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and so um

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

definitely up dated training that's why we send out a lot of video content so that

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

it's easy we want to make everything fast

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and easy we're in the process

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

of developing out an ap so that it's like really

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

available so um

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and those are the things that

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah we want to keep it fresh

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and definitely like yearly update hm

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

so

[scott]:

that's

[shaun]:

moving

[scott]:

awesome

[shaun]:

so moving

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yeah

[shaun]:

forward where do you see the future

[scott]:

m

[shaun]:

of this door

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so yeah i'm hoping to be honest with you i hope it becomes public policy in some

[scott]:

my

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

way i hope that we

[scott]:

hm

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

go you know what we got to have standards

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

for this this and this we also need to have standards for

[scott]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

making sure that we keep these people mentally healthy while they're doing their job

[scott]:

oh yeah

[shaun]:

right right

[scott]:

absolutely

[shaun]:

right right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

and the

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

thing is it's like there there was always like get

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

in shape do you push up to your un you know maybe you learn a little bit about firearms things

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

like that but then kind of like there was

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

nothing really

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

else out there that you could look to like

[scott]:

we

[shaun]:

i think we've reached

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

a crisis like a national security crisis

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

in america where if people don't want to continue to be cops

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

more and more crime is going to spiral out of control and the people that you do get doing it are not going to be you know really game for it so some of this stuff that we're talking about is definitely like how do we measure this early on and then what do we look for on the back end of it so

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

if that's the case you know moving forward we'd love to have you come back and you know kind of talk about what you've seen since you started doing this and we got some of these numbers you know how many people you've put through it and then how many people in agencies that you worked with have they seen it and has resiliency

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

been a thing that they've reflected know that mind set to help them with that

[scott]:

and probably that it continues to grow even too i would imagine you know

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

were

[scott]:

probably

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

hopeful

[scott]:

going to become

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

again

[scott]:

a bigger and bigger thing

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

cultural change big old cultural change like were do you know

[scott]:

ah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we should always be working on improving and so

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

we're hoping that it keeps officers

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

healthy keeps families of officers healthy

[scott]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and also

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

really really hoping that it makes

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

them

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

better officers for the citizens as well and improves relationships honestly

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

absolutely

[scott]:

for sure that's all good

[shaun]:

right

[scott]:

stuff

[shaun]:

and it's humanizing for us for people for them to understand

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

that it matters to us and it's not just like very robotic or

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

yah

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

distant

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

you know for the work but that being said i'm i'm gonna cal you dr j

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

because the last time i knew of a dr j was julie serving and he was like michael jordan before michael jordan was out and i

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

got to watch him play once when i was a little kid and i was like this guy changed everything about basket for me i'm actually suddenly interested in it um

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

and this is very interesting to me and and i can't thank you know we'd love to have you come

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

back and talk to us about that but in the meantime can you

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

tell people that want to get a hold to you about your program and what it's going on what's the best way to reach you and

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

m

[shaun]:

you know

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

whatever you're willing to do to help them

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

sure absolutely

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so my website is doctor

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

jennifer pro aska dot com

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

um

[shaun]:

my

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and then just like it spelled just

[shaun]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

like it sounds

[shaun]:

we'll have it in the show notes

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

okay

[scott]:

right

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

and then i'm on facebook and instagram a little bit

[shaun]:

m m

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

doing doing everything under the

[shaun]:

m

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

first respondor psychologist

[shaun]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

so trying to pump information out

[shaun]:

oh

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

to not only first respondors but family members and command staff and all that kind of stuff

[shaun]:

yeah

[scott]:

that's awesome

[shaun]:

and people be reaching out to about that special trap stuff she used to do like

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

my daughter

[scott]:

i

[shaun]:

really

[scott]:

sold

[shaun]:

wants to get

[scott]:

the

[shaun]:

into

[scott]:

business

[shaun]:

like yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[shaun]:

like i'm out did you guys not listen a d

[scott]:

right

[shaun]:

h d

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

don't

[shaun]:

again

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

getting

[scott]:

yeah

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

forwarded

[scott]:

they're doing

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

those ones are going

[scott]:

yeah there

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

forward

[scott]:

they're doing yelp reviews and it says no longer in business

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

oh

[scott]:

sorry

[shaun]:

well

[scott]:

what do you want me

[shaun]:

doc you're a j hawker to the tenth degree you do us proud in the profession we need more people like you every day so whatever we can

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

do to recruit people to follow in your path

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

as thanks for coming by and and being a part of this with

[scott]:

it

[shaun]:

us

[scott]:

was great thank you

[shaun]:

and dealing with these two goof

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

ah

[shaun]:

ball you just missed the third here because he's like i said the hydrofhoil

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

um

[jennifer_prohaska__ph_d_]:

ah

[shaun]:

but again if you want to get a hold of us you can get hold of us through three cups talk o g mail dot com it's the number three cops talk at g mail dot com and now to kind of simplify the outtro if you want to look for one stop shop for us as a as a group as a podcast as

[scott]:

yes

[shaun]:

to t in trying to improve this just go to our website which is w w dot three cups

[scott]:

yeah

[shaun]:

talk dot com that's three cups talk dot com and you can get everything from

[scott]:

ah

[shaun]:

our bios to information guest information um you know previous recordings now we're in the realm of video

[scott]:

oh

[shaun]:

um and anything else we can do to help you follow you've got questions

[scott]:

o

[shaun]:

for us that we can get to dr j here we will gladly help her

[scott]:

a

[shaun]:

with that and we'll try to get her into our great

[scott]:

we

[shaun]:

it's worked from there so please be safe out there think about some of the things the good doctor told us today and we'll talk to you soon

[scott]:

take care

Dr. Jennifer Prohaska Profile Photo

Dr. Jennifer Prohaska

Dr. Jennifer Prohaska Ph.D

Dr. Jennifer Prohaska graduated with her Doctorate (Ph.D.) in Clinical Psychology in 2013 from the University of Kansas and completed her residency at the University of Kansas Medical Center specializing in neuro-rehabilitation psychology, where she also concentrated on traumatic brain injury, spinal cord injury, and other traumatic injuries that had life-altering permanent consequences. She is one of a few rare psychologists with advanced knowledge of use of force encounters and is Force Science Certified.
Dr. Prohaska is a nationally sought-after public speaker for numerous law enforcement and public safety agencies, presenting on such topics as Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, Suicide, Chronic and Cumulative Stress, Resiliency, and various Commander Leadership courses focusing on how mental health impacts leadership. She has been a featured speaker for the FBI National Academy Associates- Kansas/Western Missouri Chapter, the International Association of Chiefs of Police, MidAmerican Regional Council, and Central States Law Enforcement Executives seminars.
As an advocate for advancing individuals and departments forward, no matter the limitations, her approach is guided by scientifically backed methods to get the best results for her clients, be it agencies or individuals. Since 2013, she has grown her practice to support over 54 different entities across three states focusing on the evaluation and treatment of first responders. As a trusted source, Dr. Prohaska provides clear and precise programs to develop top performers who are ready for high risk-high stakes … Read More