100: The Parkland Shooting Death Penalty Verdict
On this week’s show, Scott and Shaun welcome back Retired Chief Tony Pustizzi of the Coral Springs, Florida Police Department (see Episodes 58 & 84) to discuss the impact of a jury's recent, non-unanimous verdict to sentence convicted murderer, Nickolas Cruz to life in prison over the death penalty for his actions during the February 2018 Parkland (Florida) School shooting.
Chief Tony Pustizzi (Ret.) began his career with the Coral Springs Police Department in 1988. Over his 30-year tenure, he supervised every unit within the agency with a strong emphasis on investigations, including homicide and special victims. Tony served on the SWAT team for 15 years where the last eight he was team commander. Tony rose through the ranks to ultimately become chief of police in 2012. He also served as the city’s interim city manager and retired in March 2018 as the chief of police/deputy city manager.
In January 2019, Tony came out of retirement to serve as the special counsel to the new sheriff of Broward County upon his appointment by the governor of the state of Florida.
During the school massacre on February 14, 2018, where a former student entered Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland Florida and killed 17 innocent people and injured another 17 students, Chief Pustizzi, along with members of his agency, arrived at the school within minutes of being notified and was instrumental in organizing a complex law enforcement approach, including stopping and capturing the killer and extracting victims from within the school was initiated.
Tony now conducts trainings nationwide on school and workplace violence preparedness as he is a firm believer that seconds save lives and can attest that the Hero911 app for police would have alerted his officers minutes earlier, possibly saving lives during the incident he was directly involved in.
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...
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
hey folks welcome back to another
[scott]:
yes
[shaun]:
episode of three cops talk as of late florida has seemed to be in the nexist of the law enforce men universe
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
for us you know a lot of different things happening in florida that are you know
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
concerned to a lot of people but particularly how it impacts our world and today we're talking about a couple of different things we've previously spoken about you know hurricane with chris dome with hurricane
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
n and his first run down there and some of the things you saw in the devastation and impact of that we've now unfortunately had an officer a very young officer with sheriff grady who's
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
a pretty famous sheriff throughout the county you know if
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
you follow any law enforcement sites on youtubeyou sheriff create is a very plain spoken
[scott]:
a
[shaun]:
man
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
and leans very conservatively and
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
how he interprets the laws down there in his support for law enforcement
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
they it's a deputy
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
during the execution of a search warrant where i think the suspect
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
is actually going to be charged with things related to that deputy's death because they wouldn't have been there if there wasn't any to have a search
[tony]:
oh
[shaun]:
warrant for that and you know
[tony]:
oh
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
our prayers go out to him he was a
[tony]:
oh
[shaun]:
very young officer and uh you know his family is dealing with that that community
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
is dealing with that and then finally today we've got regular
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
if you go back to episode fifty eight chief pistizi
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
from coral springs florida coral springs florida is here with us to kind
[scott]:
welcome
[shaun]:
of talk
[scott]:
back
[shaun]:
about
[scott]:
welcome back
[shaun]:
talk about
[tony]:
thank you
[shaun]:
one of the things if you want to know a little bit more about him go back to episode fifty eight there's several other episodes that he's been the there with us he's a regular guest for us because
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
of the uniqueness of his knowledge as well as his experience
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
in that but
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
why brought him back today because it's very topical is that
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
the jury has made his decision in the sentencing of the shooter during the
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
attack in twenty eighteen that killed seventeen people at h with ard county that that that he you know worked with and you know coral springs is within that region and they helped to respond
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
was very controversial in the law enforcement community
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
that we thought it would set some different
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
standards along those lions um
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
for how we respond to active shooter
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
incidents and now you know it's an ongoing thing and the sentencing
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
obviously wasn't in favor of the death penalty the state pursued the death
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
penalty for nicholas cruse
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
who was the individual that carried out that hines attack that took a lot of young people from us
[scott]:
no
[shaun]:
named some people
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
created a lot
[scott]:
right
[shaun]:
national controversy around guns and things along those
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
lines plus within the police community like i said ou know how we respond train and prepare for active shooter incidents
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
we thought that that would be an incident in
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
which you most agencies would go well we're
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
not going to do that or at least some of the issues
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
that rose on that and again go back to fifty eight episode fifty eight to find out about what we're talking about but
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
today chiefs here with us to talk about
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
maybe some of the unique as how the first responders we obviously know that the families are upset the families that lost victim lost
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
their own children that were victims
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
seventeen people dying those that were maimed in the process
[scott]:
yes
[shaun]:
um obviously led itself to a death penalty know
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
the state pursuing
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
the death penalty for him
[scott]:
right
[shaun]:
the fact that a sole juror made a decision
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
to say that they didn't think that he deserved the death penalty
[scott]:
yes
[shaun]:
now as you
[scott]:
no
[shaun]:
well know in capital cases things like that if a soul center within a twelve person jury can descent the sentence is not there it's not part of it it's not handed
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
down so there was a lot of jures that were upset there was a lot of parents that were upset there was a lot of people in the community that were upset but she s here to give us some
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
perspective on what folks on the ground might have felt as well as the community because he's a big part of it still so chief thanks for being here appreciate
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
your taking the time and in talking to this about this so to that point what do you what do you think is going on
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
how how is this being felt by most of the people you worked with
[tony]:
i think everybody
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
knew that
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
this could happen like you said getting twelve people to agree on anything
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
especially in today's environment
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
is very
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
unrealistic
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
we've known from prosecuting cases down there over the years that
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
all you can
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
do is ask the question of the potential jurors you
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
know would you be able to recommend a death sentence unfortunate there's no way to secure that that
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
is the truth
[shaun]:
the
[tony]:
and all you need is one tight death
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
penalty person to be
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
able to say yes i could
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
knowing full well they can't
[shaun]:
m
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
i'm not sure that's what happened in this position i think they want to more than questioned it but
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
you know it's really heart breaking talk about closure
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
you know speaking on the officers side of things you know that day we wish we could have got a fat
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
i've been very vocal
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
about the fact that
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
if we had
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
had the opportunity to get there quicker
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
and gotten in the faster we would have ended it
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
quickly
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
you know unfortunately one minutes later so the guy a couple of guys
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
i spoke to my son also looks at that place to part they're all in shock you know it's kind of like you know it can happen
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
but you really didn't think with all the evidence especially
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
his you know two minute rant
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
of its video that he made basically
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
hm
[tony]:
saying
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
what he was going to do and laughing about
[scott]:
hm
[tony]:
it
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
so you know i've talked to some of the parents
[shaun]:
yes
[tony]:
there obviously very upset they don't
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
see justice being served it's hard whenever you know it never makes it go
[scott]:
eh
[tony]:
away but i think in this particular case they feel that they will let down there pears other
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
other people in the community
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
yeah oh
[tony]:
and
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
one of them said to me you know it took one
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
person decide to
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
take
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
a wife of seventeen
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
and shoot seventeen more that were total thirty four people
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
shot in this situation
[scott]:
right oh
[tony]:
it only
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
took one person to say you can you can live we're not going to put you to death so
[shaun]:
right
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
it's kind
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
of area
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
when you think of it that way i mean one
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
one person
[scott]:
it is
[tony]:
on one side one person
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
on the other and
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
i couldn't imagine honestly i couldn't imagine being
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
a ajerjursroom
[shaun]:
yeah m
[tony]:
when they were discussing
[shaun]:
m oh
[tony]:
this because
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
i have to believe
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
that most of the people in that room
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
oh
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
he
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
had earned a death penalty for what he did
[shaun]:
from what to that point from what i've read and you know i'm reading it from all different new sources and ones that were you
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
know one or the other about it
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
they said that the vast majority of the people in that jury and i don't know ow they're getting this information how portant that is how credible it is i mean this has just happened but
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
it was a single jure that happened to be a female that felt that there was issues related to
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
the shooters like upbringing in life that it wasn't completely his
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
fault that that was that guy like supposedly
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
there was the defense brought up things about you know this
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
just wasn't his fault it was like his upbringing his you know parents he had supposedly had feedle alcohols in drome which impacted his
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
decisions and then the counter to that was well okay then i guess that gives a green light to anybody that says well you know i had a bad upbringing and my parents did
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
this
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
they drank when i was a kid that means i should be able to go in and start
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
shooting people because then i can be basically
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
on the n the state of florida
[tony]:
m
[shaun]:
dime for the rest of my life and people are really upset about it the families were very happy with the prosecution is what i read and that was not exactly appropriate police website that i was reading that on they said that the families across the board were happy with the way that the prosecution presented the case and sought the
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
death penalty and how they did they were very
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
upset with unfortunately the judicial process that
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
people need to understand that jury selection that goes on they ask
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
you and say hey can you based on this case it's a capital case can you you know vote to
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
give someone the death penalty and everyone sitting there has to say yes or somebody's not doing their job as a lawyer
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
going well we can't take them because they're not they're already biased against this process the facts so the individual said that you know it's apparently was interviewed somehow and they're obviously anonymous because jurors need to remain anonymous that's an important part
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
of our system but uh she said and i know it's i'm saying as she because this is what i read it could be he i don't even know but the bottom line is is that
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
she said that at first she was the
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
only one and she drew a lot of ire from the rest of the jurors and then
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
eventually was able to convince a couple others now i don't know how true that is i don't know what the case is but the bottom line
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
is is that to your point chief it must have been like twelve angry men on't know if you
[tony]:
ah
[shaun]:
that play about jurists
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
in their jimmy stewart
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
was now jimmy stewart james cmmyfanrfand i think was henry and henry in was at that i'll edit
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
that out obviously henry fonda sat in there and you know convinced a bunch of other people not to give the death penalty somebody knows
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
you know it's great art is great prose
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
but in the bottom line is that if i was a family
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
member
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
on that i would be like this is all opening
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
up wounds again that will never close because nicholas cruse is going to live for the rest of his life in prison you know and i mean he's
[scott]:
right
[shaun]:
still alive though he's still alive and so many people aren't how
[tony]:
what
[shaun]:
i mean from a copse perspective chief that's all being said
[scott]:
i
[shaun]:
i mean it's very unique like you know there's a lot of cases that we go to his cops and we're like we're going to this guy's going to jail then we get out of there were like he didn't ut it was like a drug case or a battery case or you know a domestic violence or whatever
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
but this is like i mean this was incredibly graphic incredibly like
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
heart wrenching
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
our profession was called into question throughout this and your
[scott]:
hm
[shaun]:
guys i'm going to say and i've said this
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
before i'll say it again went in there and made us look right i think when
[scott]:
right yeah
[shaun]:
your agency carl springs showed up as a former sat guy
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
and tactical guys like those are the guys that just grabbed their stuff and
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
said we're going we don't care like i'm gonna fight other cops to actually get in there i'm gonna obviusound paraphrasing but how do they feel i mean like that that warrior like code
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
kind of a thing does that feet
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
is to mean like where are they at with that
[tony]:
well a couple of
[scott]:
well
[tony]:
things you know regarding their feelings and to be clear they
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
were share kind of shares deputies of women with us behind
[shaun]:
hm
[tony]:
us but
[shaun]:
hm
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
you know
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
everybody going in that day
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
every
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
officer that walked in that building knew
[scott]:
my
[tony]:
that they were
[shaun]:
a
[tony]:
possibly going to die trying to save kids
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
hm
[tony]:
and all of them ran
[shaun]:
yes
[tony]:
in there without
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
hesitation
[scott]:
ye
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
being said when you don't have
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
that opportunity to neutralize a shooter
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
m
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
you know it kind of wears on you like i've talked to some of the parents over the years
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
and
[shaun]:
yea
[tony]:
you know it is a regret
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
i will tell
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
you it's a professional regret that we
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
could not have
[scott]:
kay
[tony]:
fine
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
elise
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
this particular
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
individual that day or for
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
their
[shaun]:
yes
[tony]:
families not to have to go through this you know it was
[scott]:
right
[shaun]:
hm
[tony]:
got to watch
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
it's got icing
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
for them to sit and listen
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
to what happened to their their
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
family their
[scott]:
my
[tony]:
children and their husband their wives
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
i'm sorry husbands or because
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
they are three adults
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
that were killed
[shaun]:
my
[tony]:
but you know
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
you were saying something earlier about
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
the fatal alcolcynger and all that
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
let's let's be honest
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
as his birth mother had some severe issues with alcohol
[shaun]:
as
[tony]:
and drugs and everything else prostitute
[scott]:
hm
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
that
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
all came out but he was adopted
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
by a very loving couple
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
unfortunately
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
for them they knew
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
what
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
they were getting into
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
they knew this was going to
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
be
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
a hard adoption
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
but the father
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
when he was five years old the adopted father died
[scott]:
my
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
i left a mother
[scott]:
okay
[tony]:
caring for these two boys and she did everything she could but it was hard it was hard but
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
when you look at the at the
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
end of the day when you look at what he
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
did and
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
the and the thought
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
process to planning you know
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
what he says
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
openly on a tape you know
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
talks about what he's
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
going to do and how much
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
fun it's going
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
to be everybody's
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
going to know his name
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
it's very hard for me you know
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
to feel that that's acceptable
[shaun]:
stop
[tony]:
not to face
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
a death penalty
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
i will tell you you know some
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
people are saying
[scott]:
m yeah
[tony]:
well you know
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
he'll
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
put we get his just deserts
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
in prison what jeffrey damer
[shaun]:
ye
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
did and you know
[shaun]:
hm
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
who knows what's going to happen i don't think you have
[shaun]:
hm
[tony]:
to pay anybody
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
in our prism
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
system
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
to take this
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
guy
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
out if
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
they want
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
to because
[shaun]:
remember
[tony]:
they would probably wear it as a badge of cure just like i would have warned if i was able to
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
take him
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
out that night so
[shaun]:
hm
[tony]:
but you know
[scott]:
i
[tony]:
i think addressing the topic
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
she said it's it's a i stark reality
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
and what does it change
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
like i've heard people say we're not
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
going to put him to death
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
who deserves to
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
die
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
you know by
[shaun]:
no
[tony]:
legal
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
injection in the state of florida so
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
you know
[scott]:
yeah and to your point chief i mean it's
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
the officers involved granted is not the exact same as
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
the amily who the families
[shaun]:
m
[scott]:
who lost these people but
[tony]:
yeah
[scott]:
we as police officers we carry these things with us just like that i have been involved in one or two things over the years that were significant cases where somebody died
[shaun]:
ah
[scott]:
and we were there for throughout the trial
[shaun]:
a
[scott]:
process and for what the outcome was of that case and
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
yeah
[scott]:
you start to feel like a personal connection to that stuff sometimes because you're so involved in it and i might not be the person that that lost the loved one but you know
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
where there is police officers to protect people and to be there for the community so i imagine that there's going to be a officers you know from this that they're probably going to be upset
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
about it for a long time i mean i know i probably would be i agree with you and saw too that this talk about oh well you know the defense
[shaun]:
ah
[scott]:
attorney was able to sway this one person bout his upbring and all that kind of stuff this is
[shaun]:
eh
[scott]:
so in my opinion so far beyond like it's just like a kid who resorted maybe this kid
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
he started selling drugs when he was younger or he stole some stuff from the
[shaun]:
m
[scott]:
store that's one thing
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
and you know you talk about upbring and maybe you can correct
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
that kind of stuff this is somebody who was just pure evil
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
and went out to commit horrible acts against people
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
and now is going to potentially live
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
you know the next
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
forty fifty sixty years
[tony]:
he's
[scott]:
in
[tony]:
only
[scott]:
prison
[tony]:
in his early
[scott]:
you know
[tony]:
twenties so yeah but
[shaun]:
right
[scott]:
right right
[tony]:
one thing i would mention what you just said you know two points
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
when the families
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
i
[tony]:
and the prosecution worked together the families
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
felt
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
that they wanted the death penalty so to have somebody not
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
involved in the process
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
that is an anti death penalty person
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
hm
[tony]:
decide that doesn't matter what the family
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
wants it now
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
i'm going to go with the fact i
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
know several people
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
that
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
have told
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
me that under no circumstances
[shaun]:
eh
[tony]:
even in this case they
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
would say
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
life in prison they just don't believe in the death penalty
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
the issue i always say back to them
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
but that really wasn't
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
in your choice you were
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
if you can do it
[scott]:
yah
[tony]:
if you know you can do it
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
if you knew you couldn't
[scott]:
ah oh
[tony]:
do it you should not have been involved in the case number
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
one
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
right absolutely
[tony]:
but never the other thing i bring up to answer you i'm sure you know we're all a job awhile
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
when j simpson was found guilty
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
i could not guilty i could remember
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
where
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
i was what i was
[shaun]:
yep
[tony]:
doing
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
i couldn't
[shaun]:
yep
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
believe it right i
[shaun]:
yep
[tony]:
was like you got to be kidding me
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
you know
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
so now take that and i didn't even
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
know the guy i don't know anything about the family
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
i was watching the news like everybody else
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
right right
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
you take that
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
and just add to the fact
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
that you know the officers
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
that went through this
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
live with these
[shaun]:
what
[tony]:
families you know
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
they cried with these families
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
that
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
they felt
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
pain
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
of these families and you're
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
right will never be what the family
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
feels
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
but you know
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
this is going to touch a lot of officers parametics and you know
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
there's a lot of firemen out there and despatchers that
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
are
[scott]:
yes
[tony]:
livid there like they can't believe
[shaun]:
ye
[tony]:
it that that's the
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
way the story is
[shaun]:
well and that brings up a good next question chief you
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
know you're leader and you're your chief that a lot of us wish we had throughout
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
our careers now i had some good chiefs but i would definitely hope that you know i would love to have worked for you just from what i read and heard about you and just getting to know you how would
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
you tell us to move forward if we
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
were with you and scott and i were two of these officers
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
that were that upset and that pissed off and in this day and age so many people are leaving the profession
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
double thinking like what did i do the right things why am i doing
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
here it just seems like it just never is going to get better and we're always going to be the bad
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
guys and then somebody that's really a bad guy isn't
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
held accountable for it what would you say to us i mean how would you help us move forward with this
[tony]:
you know i think in
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
my particular position
[shaun]:
m
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
the apathy that i would
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
display would be natural
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
ye
[tony]:
because you know i'm feeling it my gut hasn't been the same
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
to be
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
honest with you
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
when i first heard the news i
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
was told by accident
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
that they agreed to the death penalty
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
i was out on the golf course when i heard
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
that and i was like yes
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
and
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
then five minutes later i get he said no
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
and it was
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
just that feeling from the high
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
to the low um and i'm sure that's what the guys fell too but you know if i was still there the good news is the chief
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
that's there now was there and he actually was one of the guys that went he was
[shaun]:
really
[tony]:
captain
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
well
[scott]:
really
[shaun]:
we
[tony]:
then at the time and he got
[scott]:
h
[tony]:
promoted deputy chief and just became
[scott]:
h
[tony]:
chief
[shaun]:
talk
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
about credibility wow
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
so i'm sure and most of
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
the command staff actually that's in place right now
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
they're the guys
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
in the pictures that went in that just you know was wednesday at two o'clock you know all
[shaun]:
wow
[tony]:
the captains
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
are working lieutenants
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
you know
[shaun]:
right
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
um
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
so
[shaun]:
yes
[tony]:
so
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
now these guys have you know moved up the chain
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
now they're in deputy chief and positions like that
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
so
[shaun]:
yeah oh
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
i am sure what they're saying
[shaun]:
ye oh
[tony]:
is guys
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
we did our job we did everything
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
we could you know the
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
bottom line is he was gone
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
as we were running to the building he was
[shaun]:
ye
[tony]:
exittintho building on the other
[shaun]:
my
[tony]:
side we never had the opportunity to see him there were no
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
shots being fired
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
when we were there
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
and we couldn't have gone i found him any quicker than we tried and
[shaun]:
yah
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
we caught him
[shaun]:
h
[tony]:
at the end of the
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
day we did our job took eighty one minutes
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
which is a long time there was actually
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
an opportunity for us
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
to catch him at the seven
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
thirty one second part
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
but he exitite on the
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
west side of
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
the school is supposed at east side where our first unit got there
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
but that being said
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
i would tell
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
him we
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
know we've all been officers
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
long enough to know you had that case you're so proud if you think
[shaun]:
he
[tony]:
it's you know something
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
that you did a great job
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
on and then
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
the d
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
throws the d throws it out or judge throws it
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
out for some innocuous b s but
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
but it
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
same time it's something
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
like this you know
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
the murderer was captured but
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
as officers
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
we have to know we're
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
not the we're not on the jury
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
you know we're not the prosecutors
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
m mike sat
[shaun]:
oh yes
[tony]:
and jeff marcus to the main prosecutors to handle
[shaun]:
ye
[tony]:
this
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
mike sat was
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
the state attorney
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
for like forty two years
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
he tried all cop
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
killer cases
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
never lost a case now uh death
[shaun]:
h
[tony]:
penalty
[scott]:
really
[tony]:
this
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
is
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
i think the most shocking
[shaun]:
yes
[tony]:
for us in
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
the community too in the law enforce community because he was the leader of that county for a long time you know they had law enforcement guy
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
and
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
he was like you know
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
when we saw him prosecute in this case or like well okay you know
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
he definitely believed it should
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
have
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
ben a death penalty case
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
so
[shaun]:
now as its defense was cruises defense provided by the state or was it just somebody that came in pro bono to do this like higher and firm
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
that decided to handle that
[tony]:
um the individual one of the individuals that came
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
in talking about
[shaun]:
yah
[tony]:
psychological issues
[shaun]:
h
[tony]:
came from another state out west
[shaun]:
m
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
hm
[tony]:
but the state
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
brought
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
in you know people
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
that we've used in the past
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
that have
[scott]:
a
[tony]:
extremely
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
are extremely talented and have
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
decades of experience
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
talking about
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
this stuff and
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
as they went through it
[scott]:
i
[tony]:
i really felt that
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
the states
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
witnesses
[shaun]:
a
[tony]:
did air job counteracted
[shaun]:
h
[tony]:
some of the
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
things that
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
this other individuals
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
i think it was from california
[shaun]:
imagine
[tony]:
had to say about you why this
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
this particular individual should not be held accountable
[scott]:
yeah oh
[shaun]:
well you know the thing about a
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
lot of the stuff is that you look at it and you say to yourself you know he
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
plead
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
guilty to all we understand he plead guilty he said i'm guilty of all this obviously he
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
didn't fight it and didn't
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
claim like mental health related issues that impacted or whatever so it's like i mean i was as a copper i was watching him going yeah this it's going to be a slam down a florida man like you you hear the
[scott]:
h
[shaun]:
hype from florida
[scott]:
m m
[shaun]:
all the time like how conserve they are you
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
know you lot here you're going to get shot you know all of that
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
you know
[scott]:
right
[shaun]:
you know second
[tony]:
ah
[shaun]:
amendment
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
all the conservative values there and still yeah again you
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
know it shows you the diversity of that state in which a case that was so high profile the images that those jurors must have seen and witnessed
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
whatever and still a person can sit in there and
[scott]:
my
[shaun]:
say you know that's the case again that's
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
that's the cyst that's how it works i'm not
[tony]:
right
[shaun]:
faulting that person further further values
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
than that but in the at the end of the day like it is kind of like one of those things it's just like this is where like you
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
know how we've
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
progressed as a people this is some of the stuff that
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
like although it's right
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
and it is this system where it is it's still sometimes
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
even tough hen you do right you still feel bad like there've been
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
cases where ive been like i know i'm doing what's right here but why do i feel so bad and doing it you know what i mean is one of the thing
[scott]:
hm
[shaun]:
that when
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
i heard that was just like oh my god the process worked you know particularly post shooting it worked really really well from what i saw
[tony]:
oh
[shaun]:
and then to see this it's just like it almost seems like is it eve go
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
go away i mean obviously it's never going to go away every every anniversary you know officers families people like that are going to remember this thing but like nine eleven we thought was never going to go away and this past nine eleven i think people forgot even happened you know what
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
i mean
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
so i
[tony]:
sometimes
[shaun]:
mean i guess the thoughts on that are long story short question wise is like
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
annually for your officers are you offering them is it like where they like all right this is the time of the ear that we saw people maybe get upset about it
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
maybe counseling need to be available people are reaching
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
out people are doing whatever how did you guys commemorate
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
that as an agency was it just we wanted to forget it an move on i mean how do people deal with that
[tony]:
but you know let me go back to
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
one thing
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
you said earlier
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
when it comes to
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
picking when he
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
was originally placed in the custody the first thing he did was start
[scott]:
ye
[tony]:
setting up his case for
[scott]:
m oh
[tony]:
i have
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
mental disability
[shaun]:
ye
[tony]:
he started
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
things it was quite apparent
[scott]:
at
[shaun]:
eh
[tony]:
right from the
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
ego that that is what he was going
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
to use as his defense he actually did stuff
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
on
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
his computer research on his computer
[scott]:
hm
[shaun]:
okay
[tony]:
on that particular object so
[shaun]:
eh
[tony]:
he knew
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
if he got caught
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
if he didn't die
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
is you know
[shaun]:
kay
[tony]:
most almost all
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
of them i think ninety per
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
cent either killed
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
themselves or
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
killed by law enforcement
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
and these kind of
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
attacks but there's a few that you know
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
this is the first one that actually
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
made
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
it all the way to trial there's one
[shaun]:
h
[tony]:
more
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
that's going to be
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
going to trial soon but
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
but what
[shaun]:
yes
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
was amazing to me is
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
you know the jury here mitigating circumstances
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
as to why
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
maybe you know he has something wrong mentally
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
right but when you looked at all the aggravating circumstances you know
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
and
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
that's what
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
i don't really understand because look the
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
minimum kid the minimum person shot had three rounds of them that was a minimum
[shaun]:
oh wow wow
[tony]:
the
[scott]:
wow
[tony]:
most had twelve
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
okay
[shaun]:
right so each
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
victim had nobody
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
had less than three ar rounds
[tony]:
no
[shaun]:
in them like a r
[tony]:
yeah it was
[shaun]:
rifle
[tony]:
all the air around
[shaun]:
rent right
[tony]:
and a lot of them were head shots
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
he was not
[scott]:
kay
[tony]:
at all sympathetic
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
to anybody like i say when i teach you know he
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
made sure you didn't get back
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
up if he was close enough to
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
you you
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
got a couple more shots
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
in you because
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
he didn't want you to get back and there's video that probably eventually come out where you know
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
he just walks
[shaun]:
m
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
up and assassinates you know a couple
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
gentlemen
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
excuse
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
me
[scott]:
yea
[tony]:
adult that tried
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
to intervene
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
and
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
you know he just he
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
continues to shoot at them
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
so
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
but the brutality you know
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
so when
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
you ask you know
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
i've
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
had guys that we
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
have a lot of military guys and
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
coral springs and you know they were talking about folusiaand stuff they saw over there
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
it's the enormity of the impact of seeing
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
you know seventeen dead people
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
right
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
um and
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
you know
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
walking out seventeen
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
more so
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
it was blood everywhere and
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
but you know so we've never
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
and i still think to this day
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
i'd have to
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
confirm that with the new chief but
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
we've always kept an open door
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
policy
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
to anybody an officer parametic
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
dispatcher
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
administrative person that walked in and said you know man i'm having our time with this so we really as
[scott]:
sure
[tony]:
a city i think
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
did a very good job
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
in the union i have to i have to
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
have to throw in the union
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
the
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
fop
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
in this particular case they did not stand
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
in the way
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
of making sure officers
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
got the necessary
[shaun]:
m
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
the necessary conversations were allowed to have officers
[scott]:
right right
[tony]:
as sometimes
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
they
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
don't
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
want to have but since
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
some
[shaun]:
yah
[tony]:
of them went in they
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
saw it they
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
felt it and they
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
knew that the need was going to be their
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
moving forward so i think
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
there are some guys that have retired nobody
[shaun]:
yea
[tony]:
retired because of its incident
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
but
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
i think some of some of the guys
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
with the current
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
state
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
of law enforcement everything else
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
decide
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
move on
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
but you know
[shaun]:
i
[tony]:
the guys that are there will still go in that door tomorrow god
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
forbid
[shaun]:
absolutely
[tony]:
to
[shaun]:
that's
[tony]:
have
[shaun]:
great
[tony]:
something
[shaun]:
to hear
[tony]:
else
[shaun]:
it too right
[scott]:
right
[shaun]:
right
[scott]:
right well and those jurors too you know we got to think about them too that they you know i know we mentioned
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
that a couple of times but these are people you know who don't see the kinds of things that we see
[shaun]:
m
[scott]:
and you know you don't probably think typically when you're getting called for jury duty that it's going to wind up being so horrific something
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
like along these lines so hopefully you know hopefully
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
those people are doing well dealing with that as well because i'm sure that was not easy for
[tony]:
yeah
[scott]:
them to to
[shaun]:
ah
[scott]:
see and read of those events you know i mean
[tony]:
yeah
[scott]:
it's
[tony]:
i
[scott]:
terrible
[tony]:
have to tell you i don't know how they are you know i mean were
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
you ave two sons
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
of the law enforce and we talk about this
[shaun]:
it
[tony]:
all the time you know they were
[shaun]:
yes
[tony]:
built for this you know you have
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
to prepare your mind to
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
see
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
this
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
and experience
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
unfortunately
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
one of my sons
[scott]:
we
[tony]:
had
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
it take out of a murder suspect
[scott]:
my
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
a year or
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
two back
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
and luckily he won the gun fight
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
he survived
[shaun]:
a man
[tony]:
but he was prepared
[scott]:
good
[tony]:
you know
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
i couldn't
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
imagine a la person
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
or
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
apparent listening
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
to the screams looking
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
at the reports listening to the auto reports
[scott]:
hm
[tony]:
because
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
the pathologists
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
are going to have to be
[shaun]:
yes
[tony]:
ah
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
my
[tony]:
graphic you know
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
right
[scott]:
very detailed right yeah yeah
[tony]:
i
[shaun]:
you
[tony]:
don't
[shaun]:
know
[tony]:
know how i feel bad for those people
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
you brought up a great point about leadership and past shows chief and that's
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
kind of your thing here about you know leadership
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
definitely on the battle field and you know i was thinking about while you were talking
[scott]:
ah
[shaun]:
here it's just like all of us as all ficers would love to have a command staff that was that like aware that like
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
oh my god i have seen
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
the worst of
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
this you know across the word and i'm sure there
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
are places out there that have them in varying degrees like you know they worked the streets re well they were involved in officer involved choosing thin is but this is like the top of the mountain and like stuff that you would expect like it's where the military in the police world kind of come together where you're seeing kind of gore and graphicness and things like that like questioning it and things like that but
[scott]:
ye
[shaun]:
to get its command staff at that level you have to think to yourself what would a community have to go through
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
to get there and you would say oh i think
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
this would come in detroit or you
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
know you know the west side of chicago or
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
something like that turned out to be in a community that actually is a really great community it's not like oh my god there's nothing but crime down there and these people are on the mean streets
[scott]:
hm
[shaun]:
of that so again for the folks to have gone through
[tony]:
ah
[shaun]:
that and have the perspective that they have you know
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
they should put them in helicopters and flying around the country and let them lead people in law
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
enforcement right now because there's definitely a perspective there that probably lacks in a lot of places
[tony]:
well and i think part of that and
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
i'll take
[shaun]:
m
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
a little little notch of credit out of that
[scott]:
yeah yeah
[tony]:
was we were a very tactical department
[shaun]:
m m
[tony]:
for a long time
[shaun]:
m oh
[tony]:
most of our command staff was former swat or actually
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
on swat and you know some of the guys run sat for seventeen
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
twenty years so there's a lot of
[scott]:
hm
[tony]:
consistency there there's a lot of comrade there and a lot of those
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
people individuals men and women
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
are good
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
teachers so hen they started teaching the regular
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
road patrol officer detective
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
or whatever what you have to really do to survive
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
in a kind of like this eventually
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
the guys started listening we had an outstanding female
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
sergeant that was train no that
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
you know how many times
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
have you guys seen were i gotta do five pull ups so i got to do forty push set
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
ups or whatever
[shaun]:
i
[tony]:
everybody complains you know
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
and
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
she and she kept it course she's you know she kept pushing and saying you're
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
going to need to be able to bust through a door you're goin to have to run up a ladder yo're on have to run a
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
hundred yards
[shaun]:
right
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
to
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
get to
[scott]:
right
[tony]:
the school
[scott]:
right
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
and i
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
tell
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
you after that they were all
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
going who you
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
know
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
because they actually lived it but you know
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
the other thing i want to say to before
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
we ended so state of florida has sixty seven counties all right i would argue
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
and i think the governor would agree with me
[shaun]:
oh
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
probably sixty
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
five of those
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
counties
[scott]:
yeah my
[tony]:
that this jury would not have
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
been set you know the way it was said
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
a broad counties
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
a very democratic
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
democratic community
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
it's very
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
liberal for the most part but i think if you set that jury
[shaun]:
m
[scott]:
ah
[tony]:
and you took
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
the jury and said okay that's why the defense i think didn't want to do a change of venue because if you would have went one county south or north i think
[scott]:
yah
[tony]:
he
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
would have had a different result
[scott]:
different outcome yeah
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
yeah
[tony]:
so you got to know
[shaun]:
well
[tony]:
if you're an officer you got no work
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
exactly
[tony]:
no
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
you know what your
[scott]:
that's for
[shaun]:
what
[scott]:
sure
[shaun]:
i gain and what i lose and all of that and that and that
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
that is great again chief tied into a bunch of
[tony]:
oh
[shaun]:
different shows that we've talked about one of the things you talked
[tony]:
oh
[shaun]:
he just finished talking about was when go
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
back and listen to the episode where we talk about warrior
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
versus the guardian and how the
[tony]:
oh
[shaun]:
warrior needs to be able to spring to
[tony]:
ah
[shaun]:
action and get there and if you don't have that mind set you're going to suffer the long term effects of that for a while like people that want are not prepared that will think it on ever happened and then those folks that can lead you through that process because just because the shooting stops doesn't mean the problem stops and obviously here we are four years later plus dealing with this and people will be dealing with this for quite so times again we can't say enough good things about the officers to people that responded but sympathies go out to the families and things like that
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
that are feeling that maybe
[scott]:
absolutely
[shaun]:
this process let them down again
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
the prosecutors again you can't say enough good
[scott]:
okay
[shaun]:
things about it they do but they could with that
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
and again this is just how the process
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
works i think if we start
[scott]:
i
[tony]:
so
[shaun]:
tampering with that process i think we're gonna mess up a whole lot of other things so i would
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
definitely say these guys you know
[scott]:
m
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
chief thank you know for
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
coming back on
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
and talking about something
[scott]:
yeah we
[shaun]:
so
[scott]:
really
[shaun]:
hot
[scott]:
appreciate it thank you
[shaun]:
and
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
so so emotional again it makes me feel better
[tony]:
so
[shaun]:
honestly as
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
somebody that
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
was really frustrated by the process so i can't thank you now for that but that being said if you guys want
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
to get a hold o chief chief why don't you go ahead and give us your back back info there how they get hold o you you're training all that other stuff
[tony]:
m uh yeah i'm still out there presenting across
[shaun]:
oh
[tony]:
the country and actually in canada over some of lessons learned
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
in strategies to implement
[scott]:
i
[tony]:
now to helpfully
[shaun]:
yeah
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
or at least minimize
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
some of these shootings and have a company called
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
four star strategies
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
go on website and see what i've been
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
doing but there's a few of us after doing it some of the parents are out
[shaun]:
yes
[tony]:
it's just trying to educate people on the fact that
[scott]:
oh
[tony]:
can
[shaun]:
thank
[tony]:
happen
[shaun]:
you
[tony]:
anywhere and i have to tell you that's the one
[shaun]:
ah
[tony]:
thing that has really shocked me is how many communities i've been to where people have actually said that the bes not going to happen here and it's just
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
wow
[scott]:
yeah
[tony]:
you know
[shaun]:
okay
[tony]:
if you if you
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
looked at parker and florida
[shaun]:
m
[tony]:
you would have said the same thing you would have been
[shaun]:
right
[tony]:
wrong
[shaun]:
right to my point right right well appreciate
[scott]:
oh
[shaun]:
a chief again if you want to get hold of us again you know where we're at the if you got any comments to us to get us to directly you can go to us through email which is three cops talk at g mail dot comments number three cops talk a mail dot com if you really want to check out everything and one stop
[tony]:
oh
[shaun]:
shop to get to our shows wherever you download
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
your podcasts and things along those lines go to our website because it will direct you to one of those or the other and that is w w w three cops talk dot com you can sound up to be a guest there you
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
can listen to past episodes you can reach out to our guests
[tony]:
yeah
[scott]:
yeah
[shaun]:
learn a little bit more about them and we'll go from there again
[tony]:
yeah
[shaun]:
keep your head up folks on this stuff this is how the process
[tony]:
a
[shaun]:
works we want to educate folks to the the the understanding of you know everybody's impacted by this but give you little bit of perspective from the copse on the ground that deal with this his is a great show to do it
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
so thanks again chief and we'll talk to
[scott]:
m
[shaun]:
you all soon
[tony]:
thank you
[scott]:
ah
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